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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello members, instead of the Games sub-forum, I will post this thread in the main forum to increase both participation and my headaches, now that there isn't any bank holiday in Spain and I have to work 5 days of the week. With Positions 1-20 "mostly) decided, it's time to nominate your 20 operas for the next round. Read the rules here if you haven't already.

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This thread will have the goal of updating the Talk Classical Top 272 Recommended Operas since five years have passed from the last voting and many new members and opera fans have appeared in this forum. Also, the new load of Opera recordings, especially on Video format, make it an obligation to provide a new list of recommendations

The goal of the project:

  • The TalkClassical members with a wide variety of interests and experiences can reach a consensus on the top works from a variety of musical forms.
  • This process should lead to some interesting debate and discussion regarding these various specialized areas of music.
  • These lists may be used as reference points for both newcomers and long-time classical listeners to the world of classical music and to specific areas of classical music as defined by these lists.
  • These lists are not definitive or official by any means and please do not interpret them as such.
It's understandable and respectable the fact that not all of us enjoy lists and polls, but we ask that you refrain from criticisms here in respect for those of us who do.

Discussion, comments, and questions can all be handled in this thread, where we have been discussing the need and the necessary voting process.

Requirements for works nominated:

  1. The work must be part of the Operatic tradition. Musicals will not be considered.
  2. Operettas and one-act Operas are both allowed to be nominated.
  3. Cycles of Operas such as Richard Wagner's Der Ring des Nibelungen and Karlheinz Stockhausen's Licht are to be voted on as singular works, not by their individual operas. However, for this time, considering the musical and thematic difference between the three operas, and especially the number of spare recordings, Giacomo Puccini's Il Trittico will be voted in three one-act Operas.
  4. A general consensus will determine any points of ambiguity.
Voting process:

To those new to the voting process, we will do a two-step voting process and build up the list 20 works at a time (a list of 10 was used for the 2015 edition). This allows people to continually review works as the project goes along instead of voting for everything in one shot.

  1. First round is the nomination round where people can nominate up to 20 works. The top 10 works from the nomination round become the next 10 works on the list, though their final ordering is determined by the second round.
  2. Second round is the voting round, where people vote for their five favourites of the top 10 works from the first round. This is so that all voters can have input in the final order.
The scoring method is as follows:

Nomination round:

The points are determined by the ranking of each work as it was initially nominated. 25 points for the work in first, 24 for second, 23 for third, and so on with the twentieth work receiving 6. This method is to weigh in both the ranking and the number of times the work was nominated. So, a nominated work that appears first on three lists would beat out a work that is nominated tenth on 7 different lists.

Voting round:

The scoring is quite similar for the voting round with the works receiving 7, 6, 5, 4, and 3 points in the respective rank that they are voted in. The last work in the voting round will receive 3 points no matter what, so if a vote has only 3 works listed, than the works will receive 5, 4, and 3 points, respective to their order. Again, the reason behind this method is to create a balance between the number of times the work is nominated and its rank.

Honourable mentions:

At the end of the project, we also like to keep a list of honourable mentions containing every work that was nominated but didn't make the final list. Hence in the very last nomination round we give people 30 votes instead of 20 to collect more recommendations. Even if some of your works do not make the final list, your input is valued.

All participants are welcome to join! Please don't hesitate to ask questions and let the fun begin! Thanks to all the runners of the previous TC Top Recommended lists, especially since this is an adaptation of Faustian's introduction text.

Voting round times:

Since a Western European seems to be running the voting process of a mainly American forum, time zones will be problematic. Voting rounds (1-2 each 10 positions) should go week by week. 1st round from monday to sunday and the second round during weekends. The more advanced the voting process is the more scrict I should get with the timings. In California is Midnight at the time it's 9 o clock in Spain (thus I'm at the office), so votes will be admited in each second round until 00:00 PST (GMT -8), but once that round is finished, it will be impossible to start the next voting round until some time in the European afternoon when votes are collected and published, that is some time in a Monday morning in America.

To sum up this: 7 days for each 10 positions (5 days roughly for 1st round, 2nd round ended by Far West midnight).

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So far as it has been discussed in the sub-forum, the results of the recommended recordings for each one of the 100 most voted operas won't be shown by opera rank this time, but in order of premiere date. Please voice your mind there if you want and haven't already.

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Works already qualified and that you cannot nominate from now on:

Mozart - Le Nozze di Figaro
Mozart - Don Giovanni
Mozart - Die Zauberflöte
Bellini - Norma
Wagner - Tannhäuser
Wagner - Lohengrin
Wagner - Tristan und Isolde
Wagner - Der Ring des Nibelungen
Wagner - Parsifal
Verdi - La traviata
Verdi - La forza del Destino
Verdi - Don Carlo(s)
Verdi - Aida
Verdi - Otello
Debussy - Pelléas et Mélisande
Puccini - La Bohème
Puccini - Tosca
Puccini - Madama Butterfly
Puccini - La Fanciulla del West
Puccini - Turandot

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Nomination Round for Positions 21-30 should start in about 9 hours (Monday 9th December 00:00 PST) and last roughly until friday 13 included, being the Voting round the whole weekend as always.

I will put the link of the first thread as soon as a mod can change its title. Please, if you care much more about the Recordings poll, make sure your favourite opera makes it to the top 100. The results this time won't show the rank and no one will complain about if one opera is placed higher than the other, because it will be performance rather than musical competition.
 

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1. Wagner - Meistersinger
2. Wagner - Fliegende Hollander
3. Verdi - Trovatore
4. Verdi - Rigoletto
5. Verdi - Ballo in Maschera
6. Verdi - Simon Boccanegra
7. Mussorgsky - Boris Godunov
8. Verdi - Macbeth
9. Mascagni - Cavalleria Rusticana
10. Cilea - Adriana Lecouvreur
11. Strauss - Rosenkavalier
12. Mozart - Cosi Fan Tutte
13. Tchaikovsky - Eugene Onegin
14. Puccini - Manon Lescaut
15. Bizet - Carmen
16. Leoncavallo - Pagliacci
17. Giordano - Andrea Chenier
18. Ponchielli - La Gioconda
19. Weber - Der Freischutz
20. Boito - Mefistofele
 

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1. Bellini - La Sonnambula
2. Flotow - Martha
3. Tchaikovsky - Eugene Onegin
4. Beethoven - Fidelio
5. Donizetti - Maria Stuarda
6. Mussorgsky - Boris Godunov
7. Mascagni - L'amico Fritz
8. Lehar - Land des Lachelns
9. Wagner - Der Fliegende Holländer
10. Pergolesi - La Serva Padrona
11. Donizetti - L'elisir d'Amore
12. Donizetti - La Fille Du Regiment
13. Bellini - I Capuleti e i Montecchi
14. Weber -Der Freischutz
15. Monteverdi - Il Ritorno D'Ulisse in Patria
16. Rossini - Il Barbiere Di Siviglia
17. Paisiello - Nina, o sia La pazza per amore
18. Rossini - La Cenerentola
19. Donizetti - Roberto Devereux
20. Marschner -Der Vampyr
 

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1. Puccini - Suor Angelica
2. Dvorák - Rusalka
3. Monteverdi - L'incoronazione di Poppea
4. Cavalli - La Calisto
5. Boito - Mefistofele
6. Rossini - The Barber of Seville
7. Vivaldi - La fida ninfa
8. Monteverdi - Il ritorno d'Ulisse in patria
9. Bartók - Bluebeard’s Castle
10. Rossini - La Cenerentola
11. Cavalli - Eliogabalo
12. Bizet - Carmen
13. Mascagni - L'amico Fritz
14. Lachenmann - Das Mädchen mit den Schwefelhölzern
15. Mussorgsky - Boris Godunov
16. Janáček - The Cunning Little Vixen
17. Verdi - Il Trovatore
18. Delibes - Lakme
19. Stockhausen - Licht
20. Vivaldi: Bajazed
 

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1. Strauss, R - Salome
2. Britten - Death in Venice
3. Britten - Peter Grimes
4. Gounod - Faust
5. Boughton - The immortal hour
6. Mascagni - Cavalleria Rusticana
7. Leoncavallo - Pagliacci
8. d'Albert - Tiefland
9. Boito - Mefistofele
10. Donizetti - Lucia di Lammermoor
11. Mussorgsky - Boris Gudonov
12. Wagner - Der fliegende Holländer
13. Dvorak - Rusalka
14. Puccini - Suor Angelica
15. Mascagni - L'amico Fritz
16. Gounod - Romeo et Juliet
17. Chausson - Le roi Arthus
18. Chabrier - Le roi malgré lui
19. Alwyn - Miss Julie
20. Puccini - Gianni Schicchi
 

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1. Berlioz - Les Troyens
2. Verdi - Il trovatore
3. Rossini - Il barbiere di Siviglia
4. Donizetti - Lucia di Lammermoor
5. Verdi - Rigoletto
6. Verdi - Falstaff
7. Verdi - Simon Boccanegra
8. Berlioz - La damnation de Faust
9. Donizetti - L'elisir d'amore
10. Rossini - La Cenerentola
11. Leoncavallo - Pagliacci
12. Bizet - Carmen
13. Puccini - Gianni Schicchi
14. Bellini - I puritani
15. Donizetti - La fille du régiment
16. Verdi - Un ballo in maschera
17. Donizetti - Don Pasquale
18. Verdi - Macbeth
19. Massenet - Manon
20. Gounod - Roméo et Juliette

On holiday until Mid-January - enjoy the game!

Joyeux Noël et Bonne Année !

- Duncan
 

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1. Mozart - Cosi fan Tutte
2. Verdi - Falstaff
3. Bizet - Carmen
4. Verdi- Rigoletto
5. Handel - Alcina
6. Rossini - Il barbiere di Siviglia
7. Beethoven - Fidelio
8. Verdi - Simon Boccanegra
9. Handel - Julius Caesar
10. Verdi - Ballo in Maschera
11. Verdi - Trovatore
12. Massenet - Manon
13. Rossini - La Cenerentola
14. Donizetti - La fille du régiment
15. Verdi - Macbeth
16. Leoncavallo - Pagliacci
17.Gounod - Romeo and Juliet
18. Handel - Ariodante
19. Massenet - Werther
20. Puccini - Gianni Schicchi
 

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1. Il tabarro, Puccini
2. La rondine, Puccini
3. Gianni Schicchi, Puccini
4. Orfeo ed Euridice, Gluck
5. Andrea Chenier, Giordano
6. Benvenuto Cellini, Berlioz
7. Eugene Onegin, Tchaikovsky
8. La sonnambula, Bellini
9. Werther, Massenet
10. Thais, Massenet
11. Guillaume Tell, Rossini
12. Die Tote Stadt, Korngold
13. May Night, Rimsky-Korsakov
14. The Tales of Hoffmann, Offenbach
15. Rigoletto, Verdi
16. Lucia di Lammermoor, Donizetti
17. Alceste, Gluck
18. Medea, Cherubini
19. Don Giovanni, Mozart
20. Suor Angelica, Puccini
 

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1 Wagner - Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg
2 Bartók - Duke Bluebeard's Castle
3 Gluck - Orphée et Euridice
4 Poulenc - Dialogue des Carmélites
5 Bizet - Carmen
6 Britten - Peter Grimes
7 Schoenberg - Moses und Aron
8 Strauss - Die Frau ohne Schatten
9 Offenbach - Les Contes d'Hoffmann
10 Verdi - Macbeth
11 Weber - Der Freischütz
12 Strauss - Elektra
13 Berg - Wozzeck
14 Britten - Billy Budd
15 Strauss - Daphne
16 Verdi - Il Trovatore
17 Strauss - Salome
18 Berg - Lulu
19 Verdi - Rigoletto
20 Purcell - Dido and Aeneas
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
  1. Mussorgky - Boris Godunov
  2. Verdi - Simon Boccanegra
  3. R. Strauss - Salome
  4. Wagner - Der Fliegende Holländer
  5. R. Strauss - Elektra
  6. Verdi - Rigoletto
  7. Bartok - Bluebeard's Castle
  8. Tchaikovsky - Pique Dame
  9. Janacek - Jenufa
  10. Gounod - Faust
  11. Massenet - Thaïs
  12. Donizetti - Lucia di Lammermoor
  13. Verdi - Il Trovatore
  14. Mussorgsky - Khovanshchina
  15. Enescu - Oedipe
  16. Rimski-Korsakov - The Legend of the invisible City of Kitezsh
  17. Verdi - Macbeth
  18. Puccini - Suor Angelica
  19. Tchaikovsky - Iolanta
  20. Verdi - Nabucco
 

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1) Beatrice di Tenda
2) Macbeth
3) Il Turco in Italia
4) Iolanta
5) I Capuleti e i Montecchi
6) Lucia di Lammermoor
7)L'Elisir d'amore
8) Elektra
9) Anna Bolena
10)Maria Stuarda
11) Il Pirata
12) Pagliacci
13) Dialogues des Carmelites
14) Cavalleria Rusticana
15) Stiffelio
16) Nabucco
17) Guillaume Tell
18) Attila
19) Ruslan i Lyudmila
20) Medea

N.
 

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1. Wagner - Die Meistersinger
2. Wagner - Fliegende Hollander
3. Bizet - Carmen
4. Shostakovich - Lady Macbeth of the Mtsensk District
5. Rossini - Guillaume Tell
6. Mozart - Don Giovanni
7. Rossini - Il barbiere di Siviglia
8. Shostakovich - Cheryomushki
9. Offenbach - La Belle Helene
10. Beethoven - Fidelio
11. Weber, von - Der Freischutz
12. David - Herculanum
13. Tchaikovsky - Eugene Onegin
14. Herrmann - Wuthering Heights
15. Strauss, R - Salome
16. Korngold - Die Tote Stadt
17. Strauss R. - Elektra
18. Berlioz - Les Troyens
 

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1 Verdi - Rigoletto
2 Verdi - Macbeth
3 Leoncavallo - Pagliacci
4 Mascagni - Cavalleria Rusticana
5 Bizet - Carmen
6 Donizetti - Lucia di Lammermoor
7 Cherubini - Medea
8 Verdi - Nabucco
9 Donizetti - Elisir d'amore
10 Verdi - Il Trovatore
11 Ponchielli - La Gioconda
12 Verdi - Ballo in Maschera
13 Donizetti - La Fille du Regiment
14 Bellini - La Sonnambula
15 Bellini - I Puritani
16 Rossini - Guglielmo Tell
17 Verdi - Simon Boccanegra
18 Puccini - Manon Lescaut
19 Mascagni - L'amico Fritz
20 Rossini - Barbiere di Siviglia
 

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1. Glass: Einstein on the Beach
2. Berg: Wozzeck
3. Monteverdi: L'Orfeo
4. Bartók: Bluebeard's Castle
5. Saariaho: L'Amour de loin
6. Weber: Der Freischütz
7. Schoenberg: Moses und Aron
8. Ligeti: Le Grand Macabre
9. Messiaen: Saint François d'Assise
10. Adams: Nixon in China
11. Vinci: Artaserse
12. Thomson: Four Saints in Three Acts
13. Glass: Akhnaten
14. Penderecki: The Devils of Loudun
15. Andriessen: Writing to Vermeer
16. Ravel: L'enfant et les sortilèges
17. Furrer: FAMA
18. Kurtág: Fin de Partie
19. Neuwirth: Lost Highway
20. Romitelli: An Index of Metals
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
19. Don Giovanni, Mozart
Hello. I'm counting the points and you cannot choose this one. Suor Angelica may earn 7 points instead in 19th position. Which Opera would you give 6 points?

18. Berlioz - Les Troyens
You can still nominate three more operas... but you're free to give your points or not. Don Giovanni is not eligible either.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
21-30 positions - Results of Nomination Round

Nominated Operas close to the Top 10 selected

090 - 10th position
082 - Bartok - Bluebeard's Castle
075 - Wagner - Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg
071 - Mascagni - Cavalleria Rusticana
069 - Weber - Der Freischütz
068 - Donizetti - L'elisir d'amore
068 - Tchaikovsky - Eugene Onegin
068 - R. Strauss - Salome
062 - Verdi - Un Ballo in Maschera
062 - R. Strauss - Elektra
057 - Beethoven - Fidelio

If you wonder about Die Meistersinger's position, bear in mind that as long as only three members keep giving 25 points (1st position) to one opera no one else nominates, it may risk falling of the Top10 cliff at every nomination round.

Top 10 selected Operas

Rossini - Il barbiere di Siviglia
Donizetti - Lucia di Lammermoor
Wagner - Der Fliegende Holländer
Verdi - Macbeth
Verdi - Il trovatore
Verdi - Rigoletto
Verdi - Simon Boccanegra
Bizet - Carmen
Mussorgky - Boris Godunov
Leoncavallo - Pagliacci

You may vote for your top 5 now, to decide positions 21-30. Poll closes at Sunday midnight PST.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
  1. Mussorgky - Boris Godunov
  2. Wagner - Der Fliegende Holländer
  3. Verdi - Simon Boccanegra
  4. Verdi - Rigoletto
  5. Donizetti - Lucia di Lammermoor

A baritone-friendly top :D
 
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