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Other 'traditional modernists' like James MacMillan?

2.1K views 18 replies 12 participants last post by  scottlf_brentwood  
#1 ·
I once heard the contemporary Scottish composer James MacMillan being described as a traditional modernist.
This description makes a lot of sense:

On the one hand, his music bears a lot of modernist characteristics, like required advanced skills from the performers, sometimes highly dissonant harmonies and a unique use of (modern) compositional methods.

On the other, his music is rooted in tradition, musically but also culturally and religiously. This is exemplified by his use of Hymn-tunes in multiple pieces and the general religiousness his pieces show.

Are there other composers who could be similarly be described as 'traditional modernists'?
 
#3 ·
While I agree that there probably can't be composers who are 100% traditionalists and 100% modernists, I do think that the description makes sense for composers who combine elements from both sides (like Macmillan).
 
#4 ·
...his music bears a lot of modernist characteristics, like required advanced skills from the performers, sometimes highly dissonant harmonies and a unique use of (modern) compositional methods.
That's spot on! A year ago I played his St. Luke Passion, bassoon 2/contrabassoon. It took every last ounce of skill and technique I had to play it. And no small amount of luck. Very strange notations and sound effects called for, too. Can't say I liked it then and still don't. The audience didn't seem to care for it either - very tepid, brief applause.
 
#5 ·
If I'm understanding the question correctly, the first composer I thought of was Penderecki (even though he's no longer with us).
 
#14 ·
Maybe something like the Latvian composer Eriks Esenvalds (the best recording of this piece is the one by Stephen Layton and Polyphony, but it is not on youtube)?

I'm not contributing to the thread, but I could not let this go.
I have "A Drop in The Ocean" performed by the Portland State Chamber Choir as well as Stephen Layton's performance with Polyphony. You are perfectly within your rights to call Polyphony's performance "the best recording of this piece" as long as you have heard and discounted the performance by the Latvian Radio Choir lead by Sigvards Klava on this CD:
Image

This recording is available on youtube.com It is listed as being taken from a CD called "The Fruit of Silence". That CD is a conglomerate of performances to highlight trends in Latvian choral music, but the recording for "A Drop in The Ocean" is from the Ondine CD pictured above.
The sound in the recording on youtube.com is really low. I had to raise my volume higher than usual to get to normal playback volume (FYI). I believe you'll enjoy this performance.
In my opinion, which ever choir performed the better version wins that distinction "by a nose".
 
#7 · (Edited)
Some of Wolfgang Rihm. He's a chamelion of a composer, and can write the most uncompromising untraditional music too but not always. Try the Verwandlung pieces for orchestra - and Deus Passus and his piano trio Fremde Szene, which is a kind of hommage to Schumann. Some of his lieder too strike me as very much in the tradition of Eisler's Hollywooder Liederbuch.

Michael Finnissy is like this, as is Friedrich Cerha. Try Finnissy's Seven Sacred Motets and Cerha's Nachtmusik.

WARNING: I've never heard a note by MacMillan so these suggestions may be completely inappropriate!
 
#10 · (Edited)
MacMillan is still a composer I'm not particularly impressed with and I've certainly tried. I think a lot of it boils down to his own musical language, which isn't as distinctive or interesting as some of his contemporaries.
 
#11 ·
Off the top of my head I thought of the following:

John Corigliano
Jacob Druckman
David Del Tredici
Leonardo Balada
Joseph Schwantner

I have read that some musicologists refer to composers like this as postmodern.
 
#12 ·
The following, to me, are composers who are not dissimilar to James MacMillan.
Some are romantic enough that their music attempts to convey types of spirituality or mysticism;
others retain 'traditional' consonant-sounding tonal/modal elements amidst the dissonances and modernistic performance techniques.

Frédérik van Rossum (b. 1939)
Shin'ichirō Ikebe (b. 1943)
Pēteris Vasks (b. 1946)
Poul Ruders (b. 1949)
Laurent Petitgirard (b. 1950)
Philippe Chamouard (b. 1952)
Carl Vine (b. 1954)
Erkki-Sven Tüür (b. 1959)
Aaron Jay Kernis (b. 1960)
Thierry Escaich (b. 1965)

Your mileage may vary, but one might even consider older composers such as Valentin Sylvestrov, or deceased ones like Pehr Henrik Nordgren or Anders Eliasson.
This one could be a stretch, but it might not be too outlandish to consider Andrzej Panufnik as a predecessor to MacMillan in this regard.
 
#13 · (Edited)
I. I'm not exactly sure I know what you mean by "traditional modernists". For example, many 20th & 21st century composers are strongly influenced by the music of Claude Debussy, does that make them "traditional"?

But below are a group of contemporary composers that are worth getting to know, who, like MacMillan have shown an interest in returning to the spirituality of music during the Middle Ages. They are sometimes referred to as "Holy Minimalists",

1. Arvo Pärt:

--Tabula rasa; Fratres; Symphony No.3
--De Profundis (Psalm 129):
)
--Passio:
--Miserere:
--Te Deum:
--Tintinnabuli:
Pärt: Sieben Magnificat-Antiphonen - 1. O Weisheit
--Stabat Mater: Goeyvaerts String Trio:
Stabat Mater

2. John Tavener (deceased):

--Eternity's Sunrise: Eternity's Sunrise
--The Bridegroom & Other Works: Vespers hymn: O lux beata trinitas
--The Protecting Veil (1987): John Tavener: The Protecting Veil [Rozhdestvensky] Steven Isserlis, cello
--Ikon of Light; Funeral Ikos; Carol The Lamb: Amazon.com
--Fall and Resurrection: Fall and Resurrection, Part I: Silence, darkness. In the beginning, before time

3. Ivan Moody (recently deceased):

--Canticum Canticorum: The Hilliard Ensemble:
Ivan Moody - Surge, Propera Amica Mea - The Hilliard Ensemble
Ivan Moody - Descendi in Hortum Meum - The Hilliard Ensemble
etc.
--Simeron: Goeyvaerts String Trio: Simeron

4. Gavin Bryars

--The Fifth Century: Gavin Bryars: The Fifth Century (Trailer) | ECM Records
--Lockerbie Memorial Concert: Incipit vita nova (World Premiere of Consort Arrangement)
--Oi me lasso: Ave Vergene gaudente (Lauda 17)
--After The Requiem: - YouTube
--Vita Nova: Gavin Bryars - Four Elements

5. John Casken

--The Dream of the Rood: The Dream of the Rood: I. Procession I (The Dream)
--Sortilège (1996): John Casken: Sortilege (1996)
--Violin Concerto (1995): John Casken: Violinkonzert (1995)
--Piano Quartet: John Casken: Piano Quartet

6. Andrew Smith

--Veni Redemptor gentium: New York Polyphony: Veni Redemptor gentium (Andrew Smith) - New York Polyphony | images by Robert Greene
--Flos Regalis: New York Polyphony: Flos Regalis
--Nunc dimittis: New York Polyphony: Nunc dimittis

Others: Tarek O'Regan, & Gabriel Jackson.

II. Otherwise, I'd recommend that you look to the Nordic & Baltic countries:

1. Joonas Kokkonen (deceased)

Symphonies 1-4

--Finnish Radio Symphony Orchestra, Sakari Oramo: Symphony No. 3: I. Andante sostenuto
--Finnish Radio Symphony Orchestra, Sakari Oramo: Symphony No. 1: I. Moderato
--Lahti Symphony Orchestra, Ulf Söderblom, & Osmo Vänskä: Symphony No. 1: I. Moderato
--Durch einen Spiegel & Symphonies Nos. 1 and 4: Finnish RSO, Paavo Berglund; Symphony No. 1: I. Moderato
--Symphony 3--Finnish RSO, Paavo Berglund: Kokkonen 1967 SY03 Berglund FinnishRSO

--Piano Quintet: Piano Quintet: I. Moderato
--Piano works: 5 Bagatelles, etc.:Janne Mertanen: 5 Bagatelles: I. Praeambulum. Allegro vivace
--String Quartet no. 3: String Quartet No. 3: I. Allegretto
--Requiem aeternam: Requiem aeternam

2. Vagn Holmboe (deceased)

--Symphony No. 8 "Sinfonia boreale": Vagn Holmboe: Symphony No. 8, "Sinfonia boreale" (Owain Hughes)
--Four Symphonic Metamorphoses: Vagn Holmboe: Four Symphonic Metamorphoses, Opp. 68, 76, 80 & 108 (Hughes, Aalborg Symfoniorkester)
--Concertos for Brass: Trumpet Concerto No. 11, Op. 44: I. Largo - Allegro con forza - Largo
--Concerto No. 8 (Sinfonia Concertante) , Op. 38: Concerto No. 8 (Sinfonia Concertante) , Op. 38: I. Allegro con brio
--The Chamber Concertos & Sinfonias: Chamber Concerto No. 1, Op. 17: I. Molto moderato
--Primavera, Op. 55: Ensemble MidtVest: Primavera, Op. 55: I. Allegretto leggiero e amabile
--Piano Works: Suono da Bardo, Symfonisk Suite, Op. 49, etc.: Anker Blyme: Suono da Bardo, Symfonisk Suite, Op. 49: Toccata

3. Peteris Vasks

--Violin Concerto No. 1 "Tala Gaisma", or "Distant Light": Gidon Kremer, Kremerata Baltica:[Pēteris Vasks] Violin Concerto No.1 "Distant Light" (Score-Video)
--String Quartet No. 4: Navarra String Quartet: Vasks: String Quartet No. 4 by the Navarra String Quartet (Lincoln Center, 7 February 2019)

4. Magnus Lindberg

--Violin Concerto No. 1: Pekka Kuusisto, violin & conducting Tapiola Sinfonietta: Magnus Lindberg violin concerto

5. Jouni Kaipainen (deceased)

--Symphony No. 2: Finnish Radio Symphony Orchestra, Sakari Oramo: Symphony No. 2, Op. 44: I. Andante - Allegro ardente

6. Einojuhani Rautavaara (deceased)

--Symphony No.7 "Angel of Light": Helsinki Philharmonic Orchestra, Leif Segerstam: Symphony No.7 "Angel of Light" - Einojuhani Rautavaara
--Violin Concerto: Elmar Oliveira, Helsinki Philharmonic Orchestra, Leif Segerstam: Einojuhani Rautavaara - Violin Concerto (1977)
--Fantasia for violin and orchestra: Anne Akiko Meyers, Philharmonia Orchestra, Kristjan Järvi: Einojuhani Rautavaara, Fantasia for violin and orchestra (2015) (audio+score)
--Harp Concerto: Rautavaara Harp Concerto
--Piano Concerto No. 3, "Gift of Dreams"/ Autumn Gardens: Vladimir Ashkenazy, Helsinki Philharmonic Orchestra: Piano Concerto No. 3, "Gift of Dreams": I. Tranquillo
--String Quintet No. 1, "Les cieux inconnues" (or "Unknown Heavens"): Rautavaara: String Quintet No. 1 (Sibelius, Gustafsson)

7. Anders Hillborg

--Sirens: Sirens
--Kongsgaard Variations: Calder Quartet: Kongsgaard Variations
--Violin Concerto No. 2: Anders Hillborg (1954): Violin Concerto No. 2 (2016, World Premiere)
--Liquid Marble: Swedish Radio Symphony Orchestra · Esa-pekka Salonen: Liquid Marble

8. Esa Pekka Salonen

--"Out Of Nowhere" - Violin Concerto/Nyx: Leila Josefowicz, Finnish Radio Symphony Orchestra, Esa-Pekka Salonen: Salonen: Violin Concerto - Movement One: Mirage
--Wing On Wing: Anu Komsi · Piia Komsi, Finnish Radio Symphony Orchestra, Esa-Pekka Salonen: Salonen: Wing On Wing

9. Paavo Heininen (deceased)

--Violin Sonata, Op. 25: Kaija Saarikettu, Marita Viitasalo: Violin Sonata, Op. 25: I. Tranquillo - Allegro moderato

10. Bent Sørensen

--The Shadows of Silence: Leif Ove Andsnes: The Shadows of Silence
--12 Nocturnes: Katrine Gislinge:
12 Nocturnes: No. 1, Mignon, Und die Sonne geht unter (Live)
--Sterbende Gärten, Violin Concerto: Rebecca Hirsch, violin: Bent Sørensen - Sterbende Gärten

11. Hans Abrahamsen

--Let me tell you: Barbara Hannigan, soprano, Symphonieorchester des Bayerischen Rundfunks, Andris Nelsons: Hans Abrahamsen - let me tell you

12. Poul Ruders

--Violin Concerto: Poul Ruders: Violin Concerto (Erik Heide)
--4 Dances: Birmingham Contemporary Music Group, Oliver Knussen: 4 Dances in 1 Movement: No. 1. Whispering
--"Dreamland" for Soprano, Clarinet and String Quartet: Helena Juntunen: Poul Ruders: Dreamland for Soprano, Clarinet and String Quartet 25th August, 2012 Helena Juntunen

13. Per Nørgård

--Violin Concerto No. 1 "Helle Nacht" or¨Bright Night¨: Christina Astrand, violin, Danish National Radio Symphony Orchestra, Thomas Dausgaard: Per Nørgård (b.1932): Violin Concerto ¨Light Night¨
--Symphony No. 3: Danish National Symphony Orchestra, Leif Segerstam: Per Nørgård: Symphony No. 3 (Leif Segerstam)
--Symphony No.6 "At the End of the Day": Thomas Dausgaard: Per Nørgård: Symphony No.6 "At the End of the Day" (1998/1999)

III. & Germany

1. Hans Werner Henze (deceased)

--Undine (ballet): Hans Werner Henze: Ondine, ballet in three acts (Knussen, London Sinfonietta)

2. Wolfgang Rihm

--Et Lux for vocal ensemble and string quartet (2009): Wolfgang Rihm Et Lux
--"Gesungene Zeit" 1991/92: Rihm: "Gesungene Zeit" 1991/92 - Music for Violin and Orchestra - I. Beginning: Quasi Senza

IV. England

1. Richard Rodney Bennett (deceased)

--A Colloquy with God: A Collloquy with God

2. Oliver Knussen (deceased)

--Symphony No. 2: Elaine Barry, soprano, London Sinfonietta, Oliver Knussen: Oliver Knussen: Symphony No.2 (1970/1971)
--Symphony No. 3: Philharmonia Orchestra, Michael Tilson Thomas: Oliver Knussen: Symphony No.3 (1973/1979)
--Prayer Bell Sketch, in memory of Tōru Takemitsu, Op 29:
Ryan Wigglesworth: Prayer Bell Sketch, Op. 29
Peter Serkin: Prayer Bell Sketch, Op 29
--Ophelia's Last Dance, Op. 32:
Huw Watkins: Ophelia's Last Dance, Op. 32
Kirill Gerstein: Knussen: Ophelia's Last Dance
--Ophelia Dances, Book 1, Op. 13, London Sinfonietta, Oliver Knussen: Ophelia Dances, Book 1, Op. 13
--Lullaby for Sonya, Op. 16, Peter Serkin: Sonya's Lullaby, Op. 16
--Cantata, per oboe e trio d'archi, Op.15: Gareth Hulse, oboe, Nash Ensemble: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azguHikRxZc
--Violin Concerto, Op. 30: Leila Josefowicz, violin, Birmingham Contemporary Music Group, Oliver Knussen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0fDWe81N7g&list=OLAK5uy_nZzIq_1c6XIjegZx-kCc6UaWEPS8ldXXY&index=10
--Requiem, Songs for Sue, Op. 33 (W.H. Auden): Claire Booth, Birmingham Contemporary Music Group, Oliver Knussen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a56blE4jWy4
--Higglety Pigglety Pop!, op.21 (opera): Cynthia Buchan. Lisa Saffer, London Sinfonietta, Oliver Knussen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bi_pRCFfkYI&list=PLSO9Kihiwr3OnxRa5vDUNfjV4yfe6u5Qn

3. Robin Holloway

--Violin Concerto: Ernst Kovacic, Scottish Chamber Orchestra, Matthias Bamert: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v82TDrDYx3g&list=OLAK5uy_moeiypwXbZu5FFVl_rnze8RY1lnW8JAjs
--Sea-Surface Full of Clouds, Op. 28 (Wallace Stevens): Penelope Walmsley-Clark, Margaret Cable, Martyn Hill, Charles Brett, City Of London Sinfonia, Richard Hickox Singers, Richard Hickox: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2XqDWbB3Yk&list=OLAK5uy_lrOKnd7j2P4UFUQyPCaB5AgeQdGqPzJq4&index=2
--Concerto for Orchestra No. 2: BBC Symphony Orchestra, Oliver Knussen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqOHGnzHtwY
--Concerto for Orchestra No. 4, Op. 101: San Francisco Symphony Orchestra, Michael Tilson Thomas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxIwW82ozJw

4. David Matthews

--Symphony No. 9, Op. 140: English Symphony Orchestra, Kenneth Woods: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMc5oKj94Cs&list=OLAK5uy_nNLM9Ekl3DMsiJrc0yrXvpZmT4sLYwUwI&index=2

5. Alexander Goehr

--Pastorals, Op. 19: BBC Symphony Orchestra, Oliver Knussen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRrElOcO_nk
--When Adam Fell, Op. 89: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrIvJQOY0Zw&list=OLAK5uy_lY0CT9PzH70vevp4lTAauSGZomgj0tKec&index=2
--Marching to Carcassonne, Op. 74: Peter Serkin, London Sinfonietta, Oliver Knussen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wmg_-3PXYuU&list=OLAK5uy_lY0CT9PzH70vevp4lTAauSGZomgj0tKec&index=3
--Colossos or Panic: BBC Symphony Orchestra, Oliver Knussen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pkJ-196LJo&list=OLAK5uy_mai6FmOguCSBKNqxPeweY9Rdn_rnuAWSg&index=2

V. The U.S.

1. Alan Stout (deceased)

--Great Day of the Lord: Mid-America Chorale, John Dexter, Larry Smith: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQvdlMg4AUE

2. John Harbison

--Symphony No. 2: San Francisco Symphony, Herbert Blomstedt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH-1KQ-oJ8A&list=OLAK5uy_nsDMMbP-CWlMWFSo2NswT2zRTnzyT0r0M&index=4
--Oboe Concerto: William Bennett, San Francisco Symphony, Herbert Blomstedt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JL3S7Eiw6Ak&list=OLAK5uy_nsDMMbP-CWlMWFSo2NswT2zRTnzyT0r0M&index=2
-- Ulysses' Bow: Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra, André Previn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4L7yHVMuWDQ
--String Quartets Nos. 1-4: Lydian String Quartet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AptwnaYDjO8&list=OLAK5uy_n9zxvQ-nQ_fz1TsL-JndNWNV-YbdRkMJE

3. Phillip Glass

--Violin Concerto No. 1: Gidon Kremer, violin, Wiener Philharmoniker, Christoph von Dohnányi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWoMede2GlE&list=PLa1rC97wRkZhQqkz8IcHPe1CNvAvMfbK2
--Akhenaten (opera): Stuttgart State Opera Orchestra, Chor der Staatsoper Stuttgart, Dennis Russell Davies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji6LTT6tLpQ&list=PLgZD-wYM2ETQtXCBMtFMGM32DY22jLohM

4. Joseph Schwantner

--Aftertones of Infinity: Julliard Orchestra, Leonard Slatkin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euFrf0AGZc4
--"... And The Mountains Rising Nowhere": North Texas Wind Symphony: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKFnUk51Nig

5. Augusta Read Thomas

--Aureole for Orchestra: DePaul University Symphony, Cliff Colnot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N56S6hmbl1M&list=OLAK5uy_m6yg4WVe8GXfdzJ9K8WXJPTqO2f4d3CmI&index=2
--Carillon Sky, for Solo Violin & Chamber Ensemble: Baird Dodge, violin, Chamber Orchestra, Oliver Knussen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8BbhoBLQZQ&list=OLAK5uy_m6yg4WVe8GXfdzJ9K8WXJPTqO2f4d3CmI&index=8

VI. Japan

1. Tōru Takemitsu (deceased)

--And Then I Knew 't Was Wind: Aurèle Nicolet, Nobuko Imai, Naoko Yoshino: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTnA--6gQbo
--Toward the Sea III: Aurèle Nicolet, Naoko Yoshino: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yViNKp1jx4&list=OLAK5uy_nKQU3EFHJlfdiO6sLOmb-pIa6IcPVgIVY&index=3
--Rain Tree Sketch, Peter Serkin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvPWDQ4UpnQ
--Nostalghia, for violin and string orchestra: Yuri Bashmet, Moscow Soloists, Roman Balashov: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dhyp68JazHM
--Autumn, Tokyo Metropolitan Symphony Orchestra, Ryusuke Numajiri: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWPucSiLVuk
--Toward the sea, for alto flute and guitar: Robert Aitken, flute, Norbert Kraft, chitarra: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_JkZs1Ku9c
--Archipelago S., for 21 players: Members of Tokyo Metropolitan Symphony Orchestra, Yuzo Toyama: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I6FZsCfUn0
--Garden Rain: Philip Jones Brass Ensemble: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL_RKTH9ZOg
--November Steps: Saito Kinen Orchestra, Seiji Ozawa: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjYMz0vVXpA&list=OLAK5uy_mGV22ivxgRkDws6qMgpzhIS5551_Wot0w&index=2

VII. & Poland

1. Witold Lutoslawski (deceased)

--Piano Concerto: Krystian Zimmermann, BBC Symphony Orchestra, Sir Simon Rattle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wn-nAFzOmkU
--Partita; Chain 2 & 3; Novelette: Anne-Sophie Mutter, Phillip Moll, BBC Symphony Orchestra, · Witold Lutosławski: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mCpbdIESIs&list=OLAK5uy_lJ-GgyX8isoVaUz34Yyj6o1BIk5IPWo-k&index=2
--Symphony no. 3: Berlin Philharmonic, Wltold Lutoslawski: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0aJHZ7LBMc
--Symphony No. 4: Finnish Radio Symphony Orchestra, Hannu Lintu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoV4GILmf7I
--Lacrimosa: Olga Pasichnyk, soprano, Polish Radio Choir, Polish National Radio Symphony Orchestra, Antoni Wit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh9g0h2MpzA

2. Krzysztof Penderecki (deceased)

--Metamorphosen, Konzert für Violine und Orchester Nr. 2: Anne-Sophie Mutter, London Symphony Orchestra, Krzysztof Penderecki: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OtVE1swHto
--Symphony No. 7 'Seven Gates of Jerusalem': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaGqGEr2-dE

Obviously, there's lots to explore...
 
#15 ·
Josquin13

Great list!!! Includes many of my favorites.

Has anybody mentioned Saariaho? She is one of my favorites. I met her the last time I attended Ojai.

Would John Adams count? I have been listening to his opera DR. ATOMIC on the Met On Demand.
 
#16 ·
Saariaho is certainly amazing. By the way, have you bought this recording yet of Doctor Atomic?

Image


It receives my highest recommendation. Stunning work.
 
#19 ·
If I understand the question correctly, we're talking about modern composers who write in a more or less tonal idiom and might even use some of the traditional genres such as symphony, concerto, etc.

In that case, I'm quite taken with Kevin Puts, especially his symphonies and above all the new triple concerto "Contact" which he wrote for the string trio Time for Three.