[bharbeke]

Sometimes, an overture is much better than the opera it is in front of. Other times, it will be representative of the opera or even worse than the rest of the opera.

What are some examples that stand out to you of either a major disparity in quality between the overture and entire opera or times when both are exquisite?

 

[Don Fatale]

Meistersingers Overture. Simply perfect not just as an overture but the way it leads into the first scene in the church.

 

[Woodduck]

Most of the great operas with overtures have great overtures, but the character and function of the overture certainly changed over time. Baroque and classical overtures tended to be rather generic, with composers such as Handel and Rossini stealing from themselves and reusing their curtain-raisers for different operas. These pieces became more specific in character in the later eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, utilizing tunes from the opera and setting characteristic moods. Nobody did this better than Wagner, whose overtures and preludes (his preferred term) are among the greatest orchestral works of the Romantic era, but there are wonderfully dramatic overtures from Beethoven, Weber, Verdi, and others.

I'm having trouble thinking of a poor opera with a great overture, or the reverse. I suppose the overtures to many of the bel canto era operas wouldn't be terribly interesting if played alone. I love Norma, but would I listen to just the overture?

 

[joen_cph]

Don Giovanni is somewhat a milestone, a superb example, and rich in content, I think.

 

[howlingfantods]

I'm having trouble thinking of a poor opera with a great overture, or the reverse.

Rienzi. Excellent overture (and excellent aria, Allmachtiger Vater, using much of the same musical content as the overture) but a pretty dull opera.

 

[Orfeo]

I agree with Woodduck. I would add Massenet and Tchaikovsky as those who wrote masterful overtures that match the overall quality of their operas (Prokofiev too I'm inclining to include). As far as great or effective overtures, but not so great operas are concerned, some people (or critics) would point out Lalo's "Le Roi d'Ys", although I find the opera quite underrated. Magnard's "Guercœur" has a very arresting overture, although the opera itself is banal and meandering in places.

 

[Woodduck]

Rienzi. Excellent overture (and excellent aria, Allmachtiger Vater, using much of the same musical content as the overture) but a pretty dull opera.

Ah, yes. I have to admit, though, that I've never heard the whole opera, and I don't think we have a good recording yet or someone would be recommending it. I wonder how it would come across with truly great singers?

 

[Orfeo]

Ah, yes. I have to admit, though, that I've never heard the whole opera, and I don't think we have a good recording yet or someone would be recommending it. I wonder how it would come across with truly great singers?

Sawallisch's Orfeo recording is often highly regarded.
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[DavidA]

One of the most masterly overtures is what Verdi set to Rigoletto. It's very short but sums up the whole terrible tragedy of Gilda and the Duke.

 

[The Conte]

One of the most masterly overtures is what Verdi set to Rigoletto. It's very short but sums up the whole terrible tragedy of Gilda and the Duke.

Strictly speaking that one's a prelude.

N.

 

[DavidA]

Strictly speaking that one's a prelude.

N.

Yes if you want to be pedantic about it. I did say it was very short. It is still masterly.

 

[The Conte]

Great overture - poor opera: Oberon by Weber

N.

 

[Woodduck]

Great overture - poor opera: Oberon by Weber

It does have a couple of superb arias for Rezia and Huon. If it were all as good as that...

 

[Don Fatale]

Some would say I Vespri Siciliani's overture is far better than the opera, although I think the opera is underrated.

La Forza Del Destino's overture is, for me, the best part of the opera by far!

 

[The Conte]

Some would say I Vespri Siciliani's overture is far better than the opera, although I think the opera is underrated.

Great, another Vespri fan. I fail to understand why other people don't fully appreciate the typical Verdian tunefulness of this piece. The libretto may be somewhat rambling and the end anticlimatice, but the music is superb.

N.

 

[Don Fatale]

Great, another Vespri fan. I fail to understand why other people don't fully appreciate the typical Verdian tunefulness of this piece. The libretto may be somewhat rambling and the end anticlimatice, but the music is superb.

N.

There is no piece that encapsulates Verdi's musical palate more than the Vespri Overture.

 

[The Conte]

There is no piece that encapsulates Verdi's musical palate more than the Vespri Overture.

That's a bold assertion, however, one that I have to agree with. The work is mid Verdi and may not have the compactness of the "trilogia", but then it is a French grand opera. Perhaps of all Verdi's operas it is the one that most sums up what went before it as well as prefiguring what came after.

N.

 

[Pugg]

There is no piece that encapsulates Verdi's musical palate more than the Vespri Overture.

The overture is fine, after that, waiting for hours to come to " Merce, Dilette Amiche"

 

[Diminuendo]

I really love overtures. And preludes too Usually you get a good image of what your going to get later on. When you listen to a opera the second time it's interesting to listen the overture or prelude and what later musical themes might be in it. Overtures and preludes get you to the right mood so when singing starts your ready to enjoy it to the full.

 

[The Conte]

The overture is fine, after that, waiting for hours to come to " Merce, Dilette Amiche"

Such is the received wisdom, but there are plenty of Verdian 'big melodies' before the fifth act. The ensembles at the ends of acts three and four would not be out of place in any of the other mid period operas. The libretto is too long and sprawling (but without much actually taking place), but the music is wonderful even if uneven.

N.