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CM and Sports. Good idea. Perhaps Schumann would have made a good baseball manager. He understood everybody even if nobody understood him. He had an imaginative mind as well as a musical one and would have been good at setting up harmonious lineups... Chopin superb at hitting and bunting with a high average but not as a home run hitter... Brahms and Bruckner good in the outfield and as sluggers, etc., etc. Wagner in centerfield gathering attention to himself. Satie at first base because he’d be too lazy to play anything else. Scriabin, Shostakovich, and Prokofiev completing the infield for a good double-play combination. Debussy on the mound as a knuckleballer to confuse the hitters. Mahler as the pitching coach and Hans Rott as a pinch-hitter. Franz Liszt with a good fastball and an effective brushback pitch. Mendelssohn as a utility player because of his versatility. Clara Schumann keeping the scorecard and Brahms batting cleanup because of this bulk... ;) All would receive state funded lunch vouchers because they could beat up the gov’t officials if they didn’t, except maybe the consumptive Chopin, who would have to bring his own petite salade niçoise made by team owner George Sand.
 

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I'm a mixed bag. I'm a pretty strong Conservative (A classic JFK Liberal which in today's political climate pretty much equals today's "conservative."). On one hand, I see the benefits of arts funding and a lot of detriments as well. I think I could do without "federal" funding, but if states and local gov'ts want to do it, it's a lot easier for the taxpayer to control and limit it if it starts going haywire due to the locality of it. Almost impossible to do if it's federal and nameless and blameless bureaucrats control it (the problem with almost every federal gov't agency).

I believe the Arts are extremely important to the development of children and adults as well. Which in turn benefits society. I love my country dearly but one of the things that drives me nuts is that the USA is so culturally illiterate that if you ask an American what a Rubens is, they'll tell you it's a sandwich. It's sad.

On the other hand, I can't argue for any "moral" or constitutional reason to fund the arts (on the federal level). It mostly is emotional for me and I rarely let my emotions dictate my politics (which is why I'm conservative). On the state or local level, KenOC asks a great question:

Question for those who don't want central government supporting the arts, esp. in the US: Should contributions be tax-deductible? Right now if you send a check to your local orchestra, it's usually a deduction from income for tax purposes, reducing tax receipts. The reduction has to be made up by the people in general through higher taxes. Is that good policy?
I would have to lean towards yes. Private funding and the free market are 1000 times more efficient and efficacious to producing positive results in almost everything than the gov't. To give incentives to donate towards the arts is a very good thing and increases those donations from people, businesses, and other private organizations.

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I believe the Arts are extremely important to the development of children and adults as well. Which in turn benefits society. I love my country dearly but one of the things that drives me nuts is that the USA is so culturally illiterate that if you ask an American what a Rubens is, they'll tell you it's a sandwhich. It's sad.
A delicious sandwich will always beat a work of art. When I'm hungry for food, I eat a sandwich. When I'm hungry for art, I listen to music while eating a sandwich.:)
 

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There should be NO federal funding for the arts. Zip. Nada. Zero. Funding for the arts should be a local decision. If a city wants to contribute and fund arts organizations, fine. Where I live the city council is quite enlightened and supportive of the arts. They provide a lot of money to run a symphony (granted, it's a community orchestra and not the Philadelphia Orchestra), a community band, some art museums, a couple of performance venues, several arts events during the year, etc. Maybe a state decision, too.
Perhaps your view would be different if you lived in a less-enlightened backwater. But who cares right, when you get to have the choice? Different places have differing resources, so essentially you are boiling it down to pot-luck based upon where people happen to live. It's no wonder the U.S. is such a fractious place with this 'state only' zealotry.

The Beeb has been struggling, dumping programming, eliminating orchestras just like Germany has had to do.
The beeb has been streamlined. It has had its scope widened without a budget to match and has sacrificed things in favour of those that generate revenue, like Top Gear (before the 'changes'). So your great ideas would see more worthwhile things disposed of to make way for popular money-spinners.

TIme and again the free market is the best way to get things done. It's too bad the public at large doesn't value the arts anymore. But that's the fault of the artists, our crappy educational system, the mass media...
Time and again it fails so badly at doing what you claim it is best at. The 'free market' only aims to supply either what people already say they want; or what someone decides will make a killing (let's not pretend that most 'markets' aren't created with heavy marketing). It is only a way for generating revenue, not deciding what to do with it.
 
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Perhaps your view would be different if you lived in a less-enlightened backwater. But who cares right, when you get to have the choice? Different places have differing resources, so essentially you are boiling it down to pot-luck based upon where people happen to live. It's no wonder the U.S. is such a fractious place with this 'state only' zealotry.

The beeb has been streamlined. It has had its scope widened without a budget to match and has sacrificed things in favour of those that generate revenue, like Top Gear (before the 'changes'). So your great ideas would see more worthwhile things disposed of to make way for popular money-spinners.

Time and again it fails so badly at doing what you claim it is best at. The 'free market' only aims to supply either what people already say they want; or what someone decides will make a killing (let's not pretend that most 'markets' aren't created with heavy marketing). It is only a way for generating revenue, not deciding what to do with it.
In the UK a private contractor has just had their contract to run a national train service terminated and it will be run by the public sector for the foreseeable. This by a right wing government for which such an idea is totally anathema. Other contracts are also at risk. Of course, the company is "too big to fail" so that was never going to happen. So this super efficient private company is being replaced by the inefficient bureaucratic public sector. Oh no, maybe the service will improve.
 

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In the UK a private contractor has just had their contract to run a national train service terminated and it will be run by the public sector for the foreseeable. This by a right wing government for which such an idea is totally anathema. Other contracts are also at risk. Of course, the company is "too big to fail" so that was never going to happen. So this super efficient private company is being replaced by the inefficient bureaucratic public sector. Oh no, maybe the service will improve.
Does that mean a possible improvement of the English train system that has been absolutely notorious and in some cases madly expensive for many years? I know of a fellow working on the Southern English coast, for whom it was easier to go on a complicated route including biking, via the Isle of Wright, when communiting by public transport to work, and prices between cities have been incredibly high at time. On the other hand, I found the Scottish railways a blessing when visiting a couple of years ago. But: this is wonderful news that I might benefit too from when travelling.
 

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The Free Market works extraordinarily poorly to provide America with up-to-date working infrastructure: water supply, sewers, reliable electricity, bridges, tunnels, railroads. If something does not provide either immediate cash or votes, it is either not attempted or it is executed in the quickest, cheapest, most slipshod manner. The works which best reflect the enduring strength of a civilization, at least here in the USA, are/were largely executed by government entities, sometimes in partnership with enlightened private companies led by exceptionally visionary entrepreneurs.
 
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Don't forget that the UK government gives b?illions of free money to the private transport companies. Last I heard they gave about as much as the companies generated in ticket revenue.

Transport networks do not have anything to do with the free market. It is an industry where politicians can take favours in return for giving private companies a huge amount of money. The system is corrupt from top to bottom.
 
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The Free Market works extraordinarily poorly to provide America with up-to-date working infrastructure: water supply, sewers, reliable electricity, bridges, tunnels, railroads. If something does not provide either immediate cash or votes, it is either not attempted or it is executed in the quickest, cheapest, most slipshod manner. The works which best reflect the enduring strength of a civilization, at least here in the USA, are/were largely executed by government entities, sometimes in partnership with enlightened private companies led by exceptionally visionary entrepreneurs.
That is true. Indeed most of the important industries work best in public ownership, ie the ones you have mentioned plus health, education, other utilities, defence, research etc. A regulated private sector may be better placed for the product development and marketing of shiny things.
 

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Private funding and the free market are 1000 times more efficient and efficacious to producing positive results in almost everything than the gov't. To give incentives to donate towards the arts is a very good thing and increases those donations from people, businesses, and other private organizations.

V
Okay. Apart from reality contradicting this 99 out of 100 cases.
 

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Discussion Starter · #177 ·
Just for general information: In the United States there is vanishingly little “free market” in the infrastructure. Highways, electric, water, wastewater, etc., all are either publically owned and operated, publically owned and operated by private firms under time-limited contracts, or privately owned with all important aspects of operation regulated by public boards or commissions, including the prices they charge. All these boards and commissions that I know of are composed either of elected officials or of members appointed by elected officials.

Since most infrastructure utilities are “natural monopolies,” they have never been considered candidates for competing in a free market. Instead, they are granted exclusive franchises for their service areas.
 

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^Or you could always rely on water from rain or your own solar panels (lol), I think its always been this way since Roman times......

Once a piece of infrastructure is provided it eventually becomes a way of making money, even the internet..............
 

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In California, solar panels are heavily subsidized by the power companies, many of which are privately-owned. I believe this is a matter of state law.
Same here, although this is becoming less so, as Solar panels tend not to produce useful base load for the grid, i.e. they produce max power midday when demand is low and not so much after dark (and early morning) when peak load is high and with no storage the power they produce id wasted.
 
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