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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
I've tried the Hanon's but I found them a bit easy but then saying that I've only been play a few of them not looked at all of them, but from what I see they are all based on one key, but I guess I can transpose them to other keys.. maybe I've improved better than what I thought I had. cause I started teaching myself touch typing to improve my words per minute maybe that helps in my finger strength in playing the keyboard lol.
 

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I've tried the Hanon's but I found them a bit easy but then saying that I've only been play a few of them not looked at all of them, but from what I see they are all based on one key, but I guess I can transpose them to other keys.. maybe I've improved better than what I thought I had. cause I started teaching myself touch typing to improve my words per minute maybe that helps in my finger strength in playing the keyboard lol.
This is why you should stop what you are doing, and get a teacher who can explain and show you how to use the hanon exercises - and everything else.
 

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I've tried the Hanon's but I found them a bit easy but then saying that I've only been play a few of them not looked at all of them, but from what I see they are all based on one key...
This is why you should stop what you are doing, and get a teacher who can explain and show you how to use the hanon exercises - and everything else.
Totally agree with Ravndal. Individually, the Hanon are "easy". So are scales. The trick is to get them sounding musical. The other thing about the Hanon is that they are not meant to be played individually. The idea is to play (ideally) all 60 flat out as a 1 hour warm up! Have a look at this critique of Hanon.

I've mentioned it before and will repeat it again, Look at Bach's 2 and 3 part inventions and above all, find somebody to show you the techniques you need to develop.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
This is why you should stop what you are doing, and get a teacher who can explain and show you how to use the hanon exercises
Well yes there is that but at the moment I'm not in position to get a teacher cause of money problems but then why hasn't got money problems in todays world.
Look at Bach's 2 and 3 part inventions
ya I did look at that it's very challenging indeed maybe a bit out of my reach at the moment.
 

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I've tried the Hanon's but I found them a bit easy but then saying that I've only been play a few of them not looked at all of them, but from what I see they are all based on one key, but I guess I can transpose them to other keys.. maybe I've improved better than what I thought I had. cause I started teaching myself touch typing to improve my words per minute maybe that helps in my finger strength in playing the keyboard lol.
I didn't recommend Hanon for the exercises, only for the scale/chord/arpeggio fingerings which you requested. Did you find them?
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Well no you didn't recommend the Hanon I think that was in my head at the time cause I was using them on a day to day basis for a while, mainly to strengthen my fingers.. Well I know the fingerings for arpeggios now, just need to get better with the left hand. I think with the scales I just used to rush through them and need to take my time and focus on the sound they make, well meaning modes cause most of them all sound the same to me, so if i just focus on playing them better than rather than rushing through them. The speed will come with time anyway. I am starting to write some instrumental songs, in a way to incorporate technique I learn.
 

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Everyone use different fingerings. Some people have preference over a fingering or the other. Always interesting to share some tips.

Here are the fingerings when I play my ascending scales over two octaves. For descending scale, I use the reverse fingering (I'm not a native speaker, I'm not sure this is the correct word).

(RH means right hand. LH means left hand)

Major Scales :

C
Rh: 123 1234 123 12345
Lh: 54321 321 4321 321

G
Rh: 123 1234 123 12345
Lh: 321 321 4321 321 43

F
Rh: 1234 123 1234 1234
Lh: 321 4321 321 4321 3

D
Rh: 123 1234 123 12345
Lh: 21 4321 321 4321 32

Bb
Rh: 4 123 1234 123 1234
Lh: 321 4321 321 4321 3

A
Rh: 123 1234 123 12345
Lh: 21 321 4321 321 432

Eb
Rh: 3 1234 123 1234 123
Lh: 321 4321 321 4321 3

E
Rh: 123 1234 123 12345
Lh: 54321 321 4321 321

Ab
Rh: 34 123 1234 123 123
Lh: 321 4321 321 4321 3

B
Rh: 123 1234 123 1234 1
Lh: 1 321 4321 321 4321

Db
Rh: 23 1234 123 1234 12
Lh: 321 4321 321 4321 3

Gb(F#)
Rh: 234 123 1234 123 12
Lh: 4321 321 4321 321 42

Minor scales :

Am
Rh: 123 1234 123 12345
Lh: 321 321 4321 321 43

Em
Rh: 123 1234 123 12345
Lh: 54321 321 4321 321

Dm
Rh: 123 1234 123 12345
Lh: 54321 321 4321 321

Bm
Rh: 123 1234 123 12345
Lh: 1 321 4321 321 4321

Gm
Rh: 123 1234 123 12345
Lh: 21 321 4321 321 432

F#m
Rh: 34 123 1234 123 123
Lh: 4321 321 4321 321 4

Cm
Rh: 234 123 1234 123 12
Lh: 21 321 4321 321 432

C#m
Rh: 34 123 1234 123 123
Lh: 321 4321 321 4321 3

Fm
Rh: 1234 123 1234 123 1
Lh: 21 321 4321 321 432

G#m
Rh: 34 123 1234 123 123
Lh: 321 4321 321 4321 3

Bbm
Rh: 4 123 1234 123 1234
Lh: 21 321 4321 321 432

D#m
Rh: 3 1234 123 1234 123
Lh: 21 4321 321 4321 32
 

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Hey thanks, worov. I copied that for reference.
 

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If you are serious about it, i would suggest listen to hreichgott, but rather do it in two different keys everyday. That way you get trough the circle of fifth one time each week. Then it won't be long before you have them all memorized.

Monday: C Major/A Minor, both harmonic and melodic. Chords & Arpeggios.
Tuesday: G Major/E Minor, both harmonic and melodic. Chords & Arpeggios.

And so on every day.
This is how I worked on perfecting scales exactly. As I became more proficient at scales, I would alternate between one key scale, rising from I to I, then I would reach down a fourth and play the dominant key scale up an octave, whereupon I would reach down a fifth and play the next tonic key up, and so one. In so doing, I became far better at shifting scales with minimal interruption.

I began with D Major and A Major, up the piano and back down. In the keys that begin on a black key, it can be a bit tricky to do quickly, but I found that I made very quick gains in dexterity. I would choose two sets of keys [and associated dominants] and work on them for thirty minutes at least.
 

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Everyone use different fingerings. Some people have preference over a fingering or the other. Always interesting to share some tips.

Here are the fingerings when I play my ascending scales over two octaves. For descending scale, I use the reverse fingering (I'm not a native speaker, I'm not sure this is the correct word).

(RH means right hand. LH means left hand)

Major Scales :

C
Rh: 123 1234 123 12345
Lh: 54321 321 4321 321

G
Rh: 123 1234 123 12345
Lh: 321 321 4321 321 43

F
Rh: 1234 123 1234 1234
Lh: 321 4321 321 4321 3

D
Rh: 123 1234 123 12345
Lh: 21 4321 321 4321 32

Bb
Rh: 4 123 1234 123 1234
Lh: 321 4321 321 4321 3

A
Rh: 123 1234 123 12345
Lh: 21 321 4321 321 432

Eb
Rh: 3 1234 123 1234 123
Lh: 321 4321 321 4321 3

E
Rh: 123 1234 123 12345
Lh: 54321 321 4321 321

Ab
Rh: 34 123 1234 123 123
Lh: 321 4321 321 4321 3

B
Rh: 123 1234 123 1234 1
Lh: 1 321 4321 321 4321

Db
Rh: 23 1234 123 1234 12
Lh: 321 4321 321 4321 3

Gb(F#)
Rh: 234 123 1234 123 12
Lh: 4321 321 4321 321 42

Minor scales :

Am
Rh: 123 1234 123 12345
Lh: 321 321 4321 321 43

Em
Rh: 123 1234 123 12345
Lh: 54321 321 4321 321

Dm
Rh: 123 1234 123 12345
Lh: 54321 321 4321 321

Bm
Rh: 123 1234 123 12345
Lh: 1 321 4321 321 4321

Gm
Rh: 123 1234 123 12345
Lh: 21 321 4321 321 432

F#m
Rh: 34 123 1234 123 123
Lh: 4321 321 4321 321 4

Cm
Rh: 234 123 1234 123 12
Lh: 21 321 4321 321 432

C#m
Rh: 34 123 1234 123 123
Lh: 321 4321 321 4321 3

Fm
Rh: 1234 123 1234 123 1
Lh: 21 321 4321 321 432

G#m
Rh: 34 123 1234 123 123
Lh: 321 4321 321 4321 3

Bbm
Rh: 4 123 1234 123 1234
Lh: 21 321 4321 321 432

D#m
Rh: 3 1234 123 1234 123
Lh: 21 4321 321 4321 32
Out of curiosity why LH starting 54321 in C and E major and D and E minor, but not D, F, A or G major, or A, G or C minor?
Seems like 21321 instead of 54321 just adds an unnecessary thumb crossing. But if there is some other advantage then why not use it in C major and D minor at least? (E maj and E min obviously you'd end up with 1 on the F#)
 

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I always start with 123-1234-123-12345 on white keys, and 2 or 3 on black keys
same thing with left hand (except B major where i start with 4)
 

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Before you read my answer, bear in mind that I'm not a native speaker. I apologize for the grammar mistakes that you're about to read.

Out of curiosity why LH starting 54321 in C and E major and D and E minor, but not D, F, A or G major, or A, G or C minor?
Seems like 21321 instead of 54321 just adds an unnecessary thumb crossing. But if there is some other advantage then why not use it in C major and D minor at least? (E maj and E min obviously you'd end up with 1 on the F#)
Thank you for your question. First of all, before deciding which finger to use, let's have a look at our fingers.

Humans are have several kinds of fingers. You have short fingers (1-5) and long fingers (2-3-4). Have a look at your hand to compare their size. You'll see that the 2nd is at least twice longer as the thumb. And you have a finger which is weaker than the others. The 4th shares a tendon with the 3rd. Therefore the 4th is anatomically weaker than the others fingers and cannot be completely independent (no matter how long or how much you practise Hanon exercises).

My main criteria's to fingering of my scales are :

- use fingers 1 and 5 only white keys. Because of their size, reaching the black keys with these can be hard in speed.
- always have finger 4 playing a black key.
- fingers 2-3 can play any key. These are strong fingers.

This is one of the reasons that C major is hardest scale of all since it has no black key to play for the 4th. Just as A minor which present the same keys. The passing of the thumb in these keys are possibly the most difficult of all.

For the same reason, B major scale is the easiest scale to practice since it plays all the black keys. It's very comfortable to play.

I always start with 123-1234-123-12345 on white keys, and 2 or 3 on black keys
same thing with left hand (except B major where I start with 4)
Hi, Ravndal !

You use 123-1234-123-12345 with starting on white keys. Do I understand this right ? Do you play F major scale with this fingering ? This means you play the Bb with the thumb ? Isn't this a bit awkward ? I went to the piano to give it a try. Playing it prestissimo with this fingering must be pretty difficult. No matter how I tried I could not do it.

Try 1234 123 1234 1234. To me, playing with the 4 on black feels much more comfortable than 1, but maybe this is just me.
 

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That explains it, I suppose. The 4th finger is indeed the weakest, but I do not find that my 4th finger has an easier time on black keys than white keys, so I don't think this fix would help me personally.
Nor would it benefit me. My fourth finger works well enough, but sometimes it causes my third finger to hesitate when it strikes a black key.

When I play, for example, D Major scales, I frequently notice that my third finger is failing to strike the B Natural before my fourth finger plays the A Sharp. A little bit of intensive practice fixes this flaw, but the very next day, it's happening again. For this reason, among others, I should never play anything involving substantial runs without at least thirty minutes of warm-up practice.
 

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That explains it, I suppose. The 4th finger is indeed the weakest, but I do not find that my 4th finger has an easier time on black keys than white keys, so I don't think this fix would help me personally.
That's curious. Let's have a look at the scale with the most black keys : B major scale.

Which fingering do you use ? I use 123 1234 123 1234 1 for the right hand. Try it. Does it feel awkward ? For it's very comfortable and easy. In fact it is the most comfortable of all scales because the long fingers (234) play the black keys and the short fingers (15) play the white keys. Moreover, because the 3rd and 4th fingers are raised on the black keys, the passing of the thumb is very natural and easy. In fact the C major scale is the hardest to play for the very same reasons: the fingers cannot take advantage of their different lengths (since they must all play white keys) and the passing of the thumb is made more difficult since now all fingers are level. It is on record that both Chopin and Beethoven always taught their students the B major scale first of all.

Now if you do the left hand, you can see that you must start with the thumb on the B and use fingers 23 on the two black notes and fingers 234 on the 3 black notes. Try any other fingering and it will be terribly awkward.
 

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That is the standard fingering for B major as far as I know. It is the fingering I have always used. But I think it has more to do with thumb issues than 4th finger issues. Any other fingering would be awkward because of what the thumb has to do, not finger 4. Your explanation also addresses thumb crossings, not anything related to the supposed ease gained by placing finger 4 on a black key rather than 4 on a white key.
 
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