I get next to no feedback on any of my music. If I do, it never makes me feel good. The feedback usually is. "There isn't enough development." Or "There's too much development. " Or any one of a hundred things that make a piece of music not work at all. So, I'm thinking of just giving up entirely, because what's the point in creating things if they're no good?
Manok
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Depends why you do it. If to be the next Mozart then maybe. If writing music is just a hobby you enjoy then that is fine and don't worry about it. The guy I know paints pictures in his retirement. He knows no one will ever see them or buy them but he just enjoys doing it
You shouldn't give up writing, but you should give up expectations of being acclaimed as a good composer any time soon.
If you are a good composer, that may be later, after years of working on things, informing yourself, practical experience, and maybe a lucky break. If you love music, you will want to go on writing, and it will be its own reward.
If I were you, I would look at what you want to achieve and form a plan, a project over the years, for you to achieve it. In the meantime, don't post for others' criticism, as it will only put you off, and how over the internet will you be able to distinguish 'good' criticism that helps you to do better from criticism that might have you haring in the wrong direction?
Someone you actually know in real life, that you respect as regards music, can help you to 'improve your game'; friends and family can give you encouragement, especially if you compose for an occasion - background music to a play, a local concert etc.
I spent several years of my life writing historical novels and got nowhere, but I don't regret it. The experience was joyful, like a sort of mysticism, and my husband and I hugely enjoyed the research. One day I mean to go back to it.
But in the meantime - not writing it, but playing and listening - it's all music, music, music...
If you are a good composer, that may be later, after years of working on things, informing yourself, practical experience, and maybe a lucky break. If you love music, you will want to go on writing, and it will be its own reward.
If I were you, I would look at what you want to achieve and form a plan, a project over the years, for you to achieve it. In the meantime, don't post for others' criticism, as it will only put you off, and how over the internet will you be able to distinguish 'good' criticism that helps you to do better from criticism that might have you haring in the wrong direction?
Someone you actually know in real life, that you respect as regards music, can help you to 'improve your game'; friends and family can give you encouragement, especially if you compose for an occasion - background music to a play, a local concert etc.
I spent several years of my life writing historical novels and got nowhere, but I don't regret it. The experience was joyful, like a sort of mysticism, and my husband and I hugely enjoyed the research. One day I mean to go back to it.
But in the meantime - not writing it, but playing and listening - it's all music, music, music...
Writing in pop style is obviously very simple, with I IV V progressions mostly, and it is listenable. Writing in classical style involves more depth, at least in looking at the music. I think it is important to study the converions, etc other composers used. A lot can come from just by learning their pieces. If you play piano, you can follow the harmony, etc. I never bothered to write a single note until lots of playing other pieces, and listening to lots of music. Until I felt I had some handle on how music is and where it could go. Write music when you have ideas to experiment with or express, not just for sake of writing. This is all just my view.
My start was arranging a few pop songs on piano to play for family and friends. On the piano keys I can see how harmony revolves around itself more. Try messing around there, and a motif, melody or something can come up, and you can build around it.
Most of all, your ideas should be interesting to yourself at least, and if it based on some musical concept, then it doesn’t really matter who else likes it.
My start was arranging a few pop songs on piano to play for family and friends. On the piano keys I can see how harmony revolves around itself more. Try messing around there, and a motif, melody or something can come up, and you can build around it.
Most of all, your ideas should be interesting to yourself at least, and if it based on some musical concept, then it doesn’t really matter who else likes it.
what sort of ensemble are you writing for? Do you have a group of musicians that you are writing for, or are you just writing without any particular group of players in mind?
what I'm getting at is that you might just want to change the type of pieces you are doing for awhile and write something for someone you personally know to play. If you are writing for an orchestra, for example, it can be hard to get an orchestra to take up your piece. but if you know a violinist and you wrote a quartet, you might be able to get your music played.
you have to be resourceful to get your music performed these days, and the best resource is good friends who can really play
so take a look around at who you know that would work with you and write music for them and get your music performed
the exercise of beating your head against the wall of getting your music performed should be enough to take your mind off of being discouraged
and remember that the true gift of music has nothing to do with how well you play or write...the true gift is that music enriches your life
...so why stop writing? everything seems more dreary in January, don't let the winter get to you
what I'm getting at is that you might just want to change the type of pieces you are doing for awhile and write something for someone you personally know to play. If you are writing for an orchestra, for example, it can be hard to get an orchestra to take up your piece. but if you know a violinist and you wrote a quartet, you might be able to get your music played.
you have to be resourceful to get your music performed these days, and the best resource is good friends who can really play
so take a look around at who you know that would work with you and write music for them and get your music performed
the exercise of beating your head against the wall of getting your music performed should be enough to take your mind off of being discouraged
and remember that the true gift of music has nothing to do with how well you play or write...the true gift is that music enriches your life
...so why stop writing? everything seems more dreary in January, don't let the winter get to you
Many of the even greatest composers churned out a lot of crap in their early years. Keep at it. Expand your knowledge of music theory, development, harmony, melody, orchestration.
You don't have to have talent when you start composing music as talent is something that can be nurtured, despite your claims to the contrary.
That's rather ironic that you bring up Brahms as it took Brahms 20 years to compose his first symphony.
You are describing simple music here. We are not talking about pop music. We're not writing pop songs. These aren't "tunes" were talking about. A concerto isn't written like a "tune". And a symphony is not a bunch of melodies and harmonies strung together one after the other. We are talking about writing substantial pieces of art music for the concert hall in the classical tradition, not music for easy listening, background music for a film, TV, etc. It is pieces that could take 20 minutes or more (per movement) for its developmental arch or to make a complete and rational musical argument, and do so in a way that is musically, formally, and psychologically gratifying. "Tunes", melodies/harmonies are not a requirement for that, btw.
Yes, it is quite evident these composers do not have a musical education. And these examples support Zeus's initial point. Take Danny Elfman. His music is quite derivative of itself and his musical palette is very limited, a symptom of lack of training and experience. Also take note of his "serious" attempt at the concert hall, a piece called "Serenada Schizophrana" for orchestra. One can immediately tell this was composed by an untrained film composer because 1) the piece is composed of 24 movements 2) the movements are short and lack development 3) some of the movements have similar and derivative musical qualities between themselves 4) it's as though he has 24 ideas but doesn't know what to do with them on a substantial scale 5) limited orchestral colors and overuse of orchestration. It's kind of like cues from a movie soundtrack. A whole bunch of tracks/movements, each one short, no development, limited in melody and orchestration, etc. Just like a soundtrack. But that's all he knows. Talent, sensibility, and ear can only get you so far when you're trying to do something beyond pop music.
This musicians without musical education has their own sound and style, so yes, they are much more original than students who are composing by learning from long time dated music. It's not important how 'simple' music is. It's important how interesting it is and is it able to bring any emotions.
Many musicians who are obsessed with musical theory can probably compose complex music for the sake of complexity and complex isn't necessarily better. Actually, complex music can pretty much hide the fact when someone doesn't have musical talent.
It can't hide that fact to me, but it probably can to you.
Many musicians who are obsessed with musical theory can probably compose complex music for the sake of complexity and complex isn't necessarily better. Actually, complex music can pretty much hide the fact when someone doesn't have musical talent.
It can't hide that fact to me, but it probably can to you.
Better to be a creator of crap music than a critic without a single creative production to his name.
One can learn bits and pieces of music theory instinctively. Although not huge fans of Elfman and Zimmer, I think they do have some talent for being self taught. I just read about Zimmer yesterday after watching Planet Earth 2, that he regretted not having a formal education, cuz he feels himself more limited than other film composers. Depends on what you look for in music, self-taught may be enough for some.
No, Yanni and Zimmer are fairly cut-and-dry, fashion plate, bland, cut-and-paste, run-of-the mill sound and style in their particular genres. Elfman rips himself off every chance he gets. And since we are talking film composers, Jerry Goldsmith (who was post-secondary music educated and advocated education and also wrote for the concert hall), was a thousand times more original than Zimmer or Elfman. He could also adapt better to the particular sound required for the film better than just about anyone.
I'm sorry but I just find simple "tunes" and brief melodies/harmonies boring and unemotional. You need not agree, however.
Given that the extent of your idea of musical talent is writing "tunes" and melodies/harmonies and probably things like "should I play an A minor chord here or an F major chord?" and noodling around the piano where the fingers happen to fall and editing it out with your ears, I don't doubt you think that.
Please, don't flatter yourself.
From another thread on the subject of "baby" music.
Ludovico Einaudi - Nuvole Bianche
Childhood Memories - Brian Crain
Joe Hisaishi
Imperium Dekadenz
Ludovico Einaudi - Nuvole Bianche
Childhood Memories - Brian Crain
Joe Hisaishi
Imperium Dekadenz
This is false equivalence. You are comparing students with hadful of most succesful composers which happened to be uneducated. I read a lot of your posts and you are always using the the same few examples. vangelis, vangelis, vangelis, yanni, yanni, yanni, yanni, zimmer, zimmer vangelis, vangelis, yanni, zimmer... Personally i don´t have anything against these composers, but this is so akward. It seems almost like obsession. And do you realize how many bad uneducated composers are around?
Simple people use simple arguments. Sorry, but world is simply little bit complicated. (I know I am be kind of dicky here.)
Whether you continue to write or not in the future, there's still no reason not to learn as much about it as you can. There's a grammar to music just like there's a grammar to writing. What if a writer didn't know the difference between an adverb and a verb, or active or passive voice, or sentence structure? To know more gives one confidence and a better chance of writing something that's worth hearing, not just based on inspiration only or flying by the seat of one's pants. But to stop learning about it when you obviously love it, would mean that you never find out how good you could actually be, even if you feel your work is not being appreciated now. In other words, it helps to know certain compositional principles to effectively shape your ideas. The idea really is to not write anything that breaks the mood of the original idea. Knowing what not to write is just as important, and knowledge of the principles can help you avoid making those mistakes that make your music less enjoyable. Music is more than just about talent. Even Mozart studied his *** off throughout his life to get better. Fascinating resource: http://www.musicnovatory.com/index.html
Not everyone will have the same views on music, as you can see from this thread, so I think just write what you like, but it should be based on at least some basic musical idea, so it could actually stand on its own.
I would say the only “don’t” is to force the music into being something it is not, or trying to force emotion into a piece which is not actually there in the notes.
I would say the only “don’t” is to force the music into being something it is not, or trying to force emotion into a piece which is not actually there in the notes.
"I explained above why Yanni actually is much better composer than Einaudi."
You explained why you think Yanni is a much better composer than Einaudi.
"To you Mozart's "Eine Kleine Nachtmusik" is probably almost exactly the same thing like all of his other serenades."
You think that talent and sensibiltiy for music is something non-existent, so anybody can become great composer by starring at music theory. "
No, not to me. Talk about putting ideas into others heads
"You can also hear Valentina Lisitsa playing Michael Nyman music.
It's mostly very simple and minimalist music, but it has much more depth than anything Einaudi ever composed."
I agree.
You explained why you think Yanni is a much better composer than Einaudi.
"To you Mozart's "Eine Kleine Nachtmusik" is probably almost exactly the same thing like all of his other serenades."
You think that talent and sensibiltiy for music is something non-existent, so anybody can become great composer by starring at music theory. "
No, not to me. Talk about putting ideas into others heads
"You can also hear Valentina Lisitsa playing Michael Nyman music.
It's mostly very simple and minimalist music, but it has much more depth than anything Einaudi ever composed."
I agree.
It is rather odd that nikola thinks he's being objective when in fact he's being subjective with his opinions. And where does he get the notion about contemporary Classical music being based on mathematics? Very few ever do. And is it not curious that many of us can agree that certain music has depth to it and yet there's no way to explain depth objectively.
Nikola. I don´t know why, maybe its because you met some bad person or something else, but I have an impression you´ve became the type person you seem to hate the most: "self-righteous music fascist"
You disagree with me for example that Yanni is better than Enaudi? Well so you don´t understand music in the slightest and your music suck.... WHAT?
I think it would be superfunny watch the debate between you and for example Pierre Boulez. One of you would be dead after this debate
You disagree with me for example that Yanni is better than Enaudi? Well so you don´t understand music in the slightest and your music suck.... WHAT?
I think it would be superfunny watch the debate between you and for example Pierre Boulez. One of you would be dead after this debate
Phil, Phil, Phil
Why do you post complex mathematical crap?
Please, in the future, post simple, soothing tonal selections
LOL!!!!
Why do you post complex mathematical crap?
Please, in the future, post simple, soothing tonal selections
LOL!!!!
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