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Germany isn't at war. And as we saw with internment camps in the US, "it was wartime" is a lame-*** excuse. I mean, if one actually cheers that kind of thing then really one can't have much of an objection to authoritarianism.
German anti-tank weapons and stinger missiles are on their way to the Ukrainian forces. (So, Germany clearly picked a side in this war.)
Putin has made it clear that countries that interfere in his invasion and aid the defenders will face the consequences.
He went so far as even threatening them with nuclear strikes.

That explains the unpopularity of Putin and his cronies in Germany.

(The japanese internment camps are totally different. These japanese americans could not escape internment by distancing themselves from Hirohito.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #84 ·
This thread has completely gone away from the original question or thought. I ask everyone to read all the comments. If this thread does not come back to the origin question,I am going to ask the moderators to shut off this thread.
 

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German anti-tank weapons and stinger missiles are on their way to the Ukrainian forces. (So, Germany clearly picked a side in this war.)
Putin has made it clear that countries that interfere in his invasion and aid the defenders will face the consequences.
He went so far as even threatening them with nuclear strikes.
Germany still is not at war. The US was threatened with nuclear strikes throughout the Cold War. And besides, the US was at war with North Vietnam from 1965-1973. Would the US have been totally within "right" to jail all anti-war activists and to require celebrities to denounce Hanoi? Of course not, and you know it.

I would ask again why the blacklisting in Hollywood was wrong.
(The japanese internment camps are totally different. These japanese americans could not escape internment by distancing themselves from Hirohito.)
So if they could have distanced themselves, but still refused, they were fair game. It's not totally different, either. It's about the power of the state in any case.
FrankinUsa said:
This thread has completely gone away from the original question or thought.
No, it hasn't. You didn't get pages of 100% confirmation and so now it's been "destroyed". Have it closed if you want.
 

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Discussion Starter · #86 ·
Germany still is not at war. The US was threatened with nuclear strikes throughout the Cold War. And besides, the US was at war with North Vietnam from 1965-1973. Would the US have been totally within "right" to jail all anti-war activists and to require celebrities to denounce Hanoi?

So if they could have distanced themselves, but still refused, they were fair game. It's not totally different, either. It's about the power of the state in any case.
No, it hasn't. You didn't get pages of 100% confirmation and so now it's been "destroyed". Have it closed if you want.
I am going to reach out to the moderators right now to shut this down. I just have to figure out the way to talk to the moderators
 

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It's true that the thread has deviated from the OP, but that is not always a problem. What is a problem is the incidence of political posts that do not focus on classical music. We have repeatedly asked members to refrain from moving away from classical music and into the domain of pure politics.

If you feel that this issue cannot be discussed without some discussion of purely political issues, we ask that you simply do not post here.

Classical music questions the thread asks are:

Do classical music artists have protection against being involved in political actions or is there a point of responsibility?

Does any event or policy rises to such a high level or is so egregious that it has significant world wide major implications such that classical music artists could be negatively affected by a policy? Are there examples of classical music artistry being suppressed throughout the world where it has become an issue that has developed "critical mass?"

Do you wish to throw out all Gergiev recordings or do you think it's reasonable to do so?
 

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To the moderators;
I've been searching the blog to send a message to moderators. I am the OP. I would like to stop this thread.
I don't know if the moderators always obey such requests. The discussion has clearly remained relevant to classical music, at least for the last little bit, i.e., should a classical conductor be forced to make a statement or lose his job, and, I dare say, at least somewhat relevant to the original post.

I for one have enjoyed reading different perspectives on this issue.

Edit: mod posted while I was typing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #92 ·
It's true that the thread has deviated from the OP, but that is not always a problem. What is a problem is the incidence of political posts that do not focus on classical music. We have repeatedly asked members to refrain from moving away from classical music and into the domain of pure politics.

If you feel that this issue cannot be discussed without some discussion of purely political issues, we ask that you simply do not post here.

Classical music questions the thread asks are:

Do classical music artists have protection against being involved in political actions or is there a point of responsibility?

Does any event or policy rises to such a high level or is so egregious that it has significant world wide major implications such that classical music artists could be negatively affected by a policy? Are there examples of classical music artistry being suppressed throughout the world where it has become an issue that has developed "critical mass?"

Do you wish to throw out all Gergiev recordings or do you think it's reasonable to do so?
Thank you for some direction.
I am the OP. I posted my answer before this message from the moderators. My answer to my OP was that I have not thrown out my Gergiev CD. I have posted my answer.

This is complicated and difficult times.

I thank the moderators for their guidance and patience.
 

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To put in my two cents.

If Munich feels that Greigev's ties to Russia and the Putin regime are close enough that continuing to employ him as chief conductor is morally untenable and they have the right to fire him, then they may do so. However, I don't think it is a good precedent to demand public employees voice certain opinions or get sacked; even if, in this case, we can pretty much all agree that the invasion of Ukraine is a terrible thing. Extorting people in this way is exactly what I would expect of the Russian regime, and if we in the west want to claim our way is better, then we would do well to hold ourselves to higher standards.
 

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A final thought or question: how many of those who feel so passionately about the Russian invasion of Ukraine have considered volunteering for the foreign legion that was announced? ' "This will be the key evidence of your support for our country," Zelenskiy said...'

I would imagine it would have more of an effect than throwing away a CD.
 

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I personally am unlikely to discard or refuse to purchase Gergiev recordings. I can imagine people refusing to listen to Gergiev recordings not necessarily as a protest against Putin but because those recordings would remind them of a horrible regime. I have friends who will not listen to Wagner because they are reminded of his anti-Semitic views.
 

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Hurting Gergiev doesn't hurt Putin in the least. The larger targets in the case of Polanski and Rowling could be "sexual violence" and "the patriarchal construct" respectively. No difference. Although Polanski was never really ostracized or "cancelled".
I don't know what an earth your points about Polanski and Rowling have to do with this as they are irrelevant to the discussion. It doesn't take much brain power to work out that hurting important people with influence in Russia may wake people up to the fact that the country is a pariah state, isolated, economically and in other ways, and Actually make them think of getting rid of Putin
 

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You can weed out who you like. This is a matter of personal conscience. You can weed out any artist you like if their political views / lifestyle is offensive to you. Your privilege. Just don't try and dictate to others what they should do to be 'consistent'.
I think you miss the point
 

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Here's another question that troubles me a little:
Forget Gergiev-Putin. Does a politician have a right to demand that a performer make any specific political statement?
Yes. And the performer has a right to decide how to respond.

No, I'm not going to throw out any Gergiev CDs (actually, I don't have any) and I'm not going to throw out my toothpicks either. I shan't go out of my way to watch his performances with the Mariinsky on TV either.

We're all compromised in a complicated grey world, and TC - for understandable reasons - is a place where the specifics of "Gergiev/Putin" can't really be explored in any depth with getting into that abstract complexity (as dissident's post shows).

Better to make your own decision about classical music in a complicated world and leave it at that.
 

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A final thought or question: how many of those who feel so passionately about the Russian invasion of Ukraine have considered volunteering for the foreign legion that was announced? ' "This will be the key evidence of your support for our country," Zelenskiy said...'

I would imagine it would have more of an effect than throwing away a CD.
Frankly that is a pretty thoughtless suggestion. As someone who is in his mid 70s and is completely untrained as a fighting man it is guaranteed that I would do more harm than good by volunteering. As Mr Wallace said you should only volunteer for something like this if you are properly trained as a military man. I wouldn't volunteer to play the violin in an orchestra because I can't play the violin. I wouldn't volunteer for combat because I can't shoot a gun. Quite simple. Maybe if I was a Ukrainian in Ukraine it might be different.
 
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