The above post does not contain a single true statement. If I am not allowed to refute it here, it needs to be deleted by the moderators, as subsequent posts already have been.
Singers who ruined (/set the bar too high for) opera for you
one singer who comes to mind immediately for me is Samuel Ramey who, the more I think about it, is a freak of nature as far as male voices are concerned, possessing a bizarre combination of
- the deep, resonant timbre and lower extension of a basso profundo
- high notes which puts most spinto tenors to shame
- agility which puts most coloraturas to shame
- the elegance of a bel canto soprano
it's hard enough finding basses who possess even one of these characteristics, but in combination (especially when combined with a charismatic stage presence).....wow. I have yet to find a bass who comes even close. there are basses I can objectively recognize as great singers (Ciepi, Hines, Ghiaurov, etc), but not of them really thrill me the way Ramey does. frankly, with a handful of exceptions, he's almost ruined the entire fach for me.
- the deep, resonant timbre and lower extension of a basso profundo
- high notes which puts most spinto tenors to shame
- agility which puts most coloraturas to shame
- the elegance of a bel canto soprano
it's hard enough finding basses who possess even one of these characteristics, but in combination (especially when combined with a charismatic stage presence).....wow. I have yet to find a bass who comes even close. there are basses I can objectively recognize as great singers (Ciepi, Hines, Ghiaurov, etc), but not of them really thrill me the way Ramey does. frankly, with a handful of exceptions, he's almost ruined the entire fach for me.
41 - 60 of 90 Posts
It's rare that I feel that a singer simply appropriates a role or an aria and ruins other people's performances for me. Another great voice and interpretation are always theoretically possible. But they may not presently be available.
The obvious choice for a singer who can obliterate other singers' efforts is Maria Callas. I would qualify this by saying that her interpretations often do that for me, while certain other singers have equalled and perhaps surpassed her vocally in many of her roles. But in a great performance the two must go hand in hand, so I don't want to parse this too much. With Callas, more than with any other singer, I tend to come away from a performance feeling that I will never hear the total meaning of the music and drama realized so powerfully, and that there's no point in hoping for it. And this is, for the most part, without seeing her, except in my mind's eye. Where I can see her - in the second act of Tosca - the feeling is fully confirmed. I don't even care for Tosca, except in that film from Covent Garden. She and Gobbi, for me, just own the opera. Some other roles in which, for me, no one else seems likely to measure up? Medea, Lucia, Norma, Lady Macbeth, Butterfly, Carmen...
A few other sopranos who've spoiled me in certain parts are Elisabeth Schwarzkopf, who inherited the Marschallin from Lotte Lehmann, who more or less owned it before her. Lehmann also fully embodied Sieglinde, and that Walkure Act One with Melchior will surely never be equalled. Lehmann, in fact, was a singer of such exalted expressiveness that practically everything she did, at least in German opera, set a standard. Elisabeth Grummer, another German soprano, was Weber's Agathe to the very life, with her natural, artless loveliness of spirit, wonderfully different from the sophisticated Schwarzkopf; and that same fresh naturalness made her the perfect Eva. And yet the greatest single recording of Eva's music is that of the quintet from Meistersinger led by Elisabeth Schumann, a performance that breathes such an unearthly beauty that only Grummer's comes near it. That classic recording is almost enough to make you dread the next performance you'll hear.
I guess I'll leave it with the sopranos for now.
The obvious choice for a singer who can obliterate other singers' efforts is Maria Callas. I would qualify this by saying that her interpretations often do that for me, while certain other singers have equalled and perhaps surpassed her vocally in many of her roles. But in a great performance the two must go hand in hand, so I don't want to parse this too much. With Callas, more than with any other singer, I tend to come away from a performance feeling that I will never hear the total meaning of the music and drama realized so powerfully, and that there's no point in hoping for it. And this is, for the most part, without seeing her, except in my mind's eye. Where I can see her - in the second act of Tosca - the feeling is fully confirmed. I don't even care for Tosca, except in that film from Covent Garden. She and Gobbi, for me, just own the opera. Some other roles in which, for me, no one else seems likely to measure up? Medea, Lucia, Norma, Lady Macbeth, Butterfly, Carmen...
A few other sopranos who've spoiled me in certain parts are Elisabeth Schwarzkopf, who inherited the Marschallin from Lotte Lehmann, who more or less owned it before her. Lehmann also fully embodied Sieglinde, and that Walkure Act One with Melchior will surely never be equalled. Lehmann, in fact, was a singer of such exalted expressiveness that practically everything she did, at least in German opera, set a standard. Elisabeth Grummer, another German soprano, was Weber's Agathe to the very life, with her natural, artless loveliness of spirit, wonderfully different from the sophisticated Schwarzkopf; and that same fresh naturalness made her the perfect Eva. And yet the greatest single recording of Eva's music is that of the quintet from Meistersinger led by Elisabeth Schumann, a performance that breathes such an unearthly beauty that only Grummer's comes near it. That classic recording is almost enough to make you dread the next performance you'll hear.
I guess I'll leave it with the sopranos for now.
Corelli and Lucilla Udovich ruined Calaf and Turandot for me. The same goes for Kirsten Flagstad in Isolde. However, the most extreme case is the La forza del destino recording under Molinari-Pradelli with Del Monaco, Tebaldi, Bastianini and Siepi as cast. It doesn't just ruin one or two characters but the whole thing. No other forza shall be listened to ever again.
Well, I just had to return to post this, because I should have posted it initially. I don't expect ever to experience a better performance of Figaro's last-act aria (Le Nozze di Figaro) than Bryn Terfel's here:
The late John Steane highlighted the debate between old and new. Some people are "genuinely at a loss to understand how anyone with standards, anyone who is aware (say) of Boninsegna and Battistini, Mizio and Lauri-Volpi, can tolerate, let along praise (say) Pavarotti and Caballi." Others are also at a loss: "when they hear distinguished modern singers they sound perfectly acceptable to them; when they listen to famous old 'us, they sound ghastly!"
Stein says of the debate "it Is probably as old as civilisation. It certainly goes back to Francesco Tosi who complained that, 'Italy hears no more exquisite voices as in times past.' That was in 1723!"
Stein says of the debate "it Is probably as old as civilisation. It certainly goes back to Francesco Tosi who complained that, 'Italy hears no more exquisite voices as in times past.' That was in 1723!"
P
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I second this enthusiastically. Callas really spoils it for her successors in her roles. I used to go to the opera eagerly to see and hear whether other singers sang her roles as well as she. Of course, none approached her in those roles. I would rather forgo "her" operas than go and be disappointed yet again.The obvious choice for a singer who can obliterate other singers' efforts is Maria Callas. I would qualify this by saying that her interpretations often do that for me, while certain other singers have equalled and perhaps surpassed her vocally in many of her roles. But in a great performance the two must go hand in hand, so I don't want to parse this too much. With Callas, more than with any other singer, I tend to come away from a performance feeling that I will never hear the total meaning of the music and drama realized so powerfully, and that there's no point in hoping for it. And this is, for the most part, without seeing her, except in my mind's eye. Where I can see her - in the second act of Tosca - the feeling is fully confirmed. I don't even care for Tosca, except in that film from Covent Garden. She and Gobbi, for me, just own the opera. Some other roles in which, for me, no one else seems likely to measure up? Medea, Lucia, Norma, Lady Macbeth, Butterfly, Carmen?...
Sorry but I think this is a bit OTT. Yes I admire Callas as a great artist and have some of her recordings. But do they spoil other singers for me in those roles? The answer is an unequivocal No. Yes her Mimi and Butterfly are very interesting and her Aida dramatic. But does that mean I can't appreciate the likes of Freni, Tebaldi (who had more naturally beautiful voices) et al? It seems a shame to narrow one's field of appreciation down like this. Let's enjoy every great singer we are privileged to hear.P
I second this enthusiastically. Callas really spoils it for her successors in her roles. I used to go to the opera eagerly to see and hear whether other singers sang her roles as well as she. Of course, none approached her in those roles. I would rather forgo "her" operas than go and be disappointed yet again.
View attachment 71131
Yes I believe Callas' Tosca maybe reigns supreme. But does that prevent me from appreciating other great singers in that role? Of course not. Do I enjoy Callas' Rosina? Yes! Does it ruin listening to de los Angeles delightful performance for me? No! Why? Because no artist, however great, has it all. There are always new things to hear from different (great) singers.
Am I disappointed when I see live opera and it's not Callas? No I'm not. Because however great she was we can't bring her back on stage. Although I enjoy looking back I also enjoy living in the present.
Well, then, DavidA, you're fortunate.Sorry but I think this is a bit OTT. Yes I admire Callas as a great artist and have some of her recordings. But do they spoil other singers for me in those roles? The answer is an unequivocal No. Yes her Mimi and Butterfly are very interesting and her Aida dramatic. But does that mean I can't appreciate the likes of Freni, Tebaldi (who had more naturally beautiful voices) et al? It seems a shame to narrow one's field of appreciation down like this. Let's enjoy every great singer we are privileged to hear.
Yes I believe Callas' Tosca maybe reigns supreme. But does that prevent me from appreciating other great singers in that role? Of course not. Do I enjoy Callas' Rosina? Yes! Does it ruin listening to de los Angeles delightful performance for me? No! Why? Because no artist, however great, has it all. There are always new things to hear from different (great) singers.
Am I disappointed when I see live opera and it's not Callas? No I'm not. Because however great she was we can't bring her back on stage. Although I enjoy looking back I also enjoy living in the present.
I think I'm in the first camp, although I wouldn't like to say with 100% conviction that late Lauri-Volpi is always absolutely better than early Pavarotti! With slightly better chosen examples (though Steane presumably meant not the octagenarian Lauri-Volpi, but that tenor in his 1920s prime) it's true for me that early 20th century singers pretty much 'ruined' the standard operatic repertoire.The late John Steane highlighted the debate between old and new. Some people are "genuinely at a loss to understand how anyone with standards, anyone who is aware (say) of Boninsegna and Battistini, Muzio and Lauri-Volpi, can tolerate, let along praise (say) Pavarotti and Caballe." Others are also at a loss: "when they hear distinguished modern singers they sound perfectly acceptable to them; when they listen to famous old 'uns, they sound ghastly!"
Stein says of the debate "it Is probably as old as civilisation. It certainly goes back to Francesco Tosi who complained that, 'Italy hears no more exquisite voices as in times past.' That was in 1723!"
I am. It's great!Well, then, DavidA, you're fortunate.
Second camp me. Just cannot see the fascination in these elderly recordings and dated sng g style. For me the great era of recorded singing came with the advent of LP is the 50s onwards through to the 70s.I think I'm in the first camp, although I wouldn't like to say with 100% conviction that late Lauri-Volpi is always absolutely better than early Pavarotti! With slightly better chosen examples (though Steane presumably meant not the octagenarian Lauri-Volpi, but that tenor in his 1920s prime) it's true for me that early 20th century singers pretty much 'ruined' the standard operatic repertoire.
Thank you for writing my post for me :lol::tiphat:The obvious choice for a singer who can obliterate other singers' efforts is Maria Callas. I would qualify this by saying that her interpretations often do that for me, while certain other singers have equalled and perhaps surpassed her vocally in many of her roles. But in a great performance the two must go hand in hand, so I don't want to parse this too much. With Callas, more than with any other singer, I tend to come away from a performance feeling that I will never hear the total meaning of the music and drama realized so powerfully, and that there's no point in hoping for it. And this is, for the most part, without seeing her, except in my mind's eye. Where I can see her - in the second act of Tosca - the feeling is fully confirmed. I don't even care for Tosca, except in that film from Covent Garden. She and Gobbi, for me, just own the opera. Some other roles in which, for me, no one else seems likely to measure up? Medea, Lucia, Norma, Lady Macbeth, Butterfly, Carmen...
Knowing what discriminating tastes you have, I look forward to your returning the favor. :tiphat:Thank you for writing my post for me :lol::tiphat:
Carreras was a wonder before his illness. His life was saved here in Seattle at a facility I make deliveries to everyday.
Sutherland and early Callas ruined many coloratura operas for me as there have not been any singers really in their league since their heyday... and that has been quite a while. Some good singers... but none in their league
In looking back at the question, I realize now that I misunderstood the intent of the question and took it to mean the ones who disappointed you the most with their vocal flaws.Samuel Ramey with his fabulous bass sound was just perfect and a great entertainer till Mother Nature intervened too early on and delivered an unwanted wobble to his otherwise wonderful sound.
Rolando Villazon -- an exciting, refreshing talent that misused his voice to the detriment of the opera world. A sad story.
Jose Carerras and Giuseppe diStefano both stepped over the line later on with dire consequences.
Now I see that you meant just the opposite.
So I add my choice of Neil Shicoff. Why? Because no other tenor touches my heart the way he does. He's the entire package.
Never have I seen or heard a more consummate tenor who involves himself in a role more than Shicoff.
Try this on for size:
Callas ruined Violetta, Norma, Medea, Tosca, Butterfly, Gilda, Amina, Turandot, Amelia, Macbeth and Lucia. I won't even go to see Traviata or Norma at the opera because nothing will ever come close to her 1958 Covent Garden Traviata and her 1955 Scala Norma. Gobbi ruined Scarpia, nobody sounds better or more menacing. Freni ruined La Boheme as another one.
Lisa Della Casa ruined Four Last Songs for me. Her Bei Schlafgehen is divine and delicate beyond my imagination until I listened to it.
Really.....I am not sure many will agree with you.Lisa Della Casa ruined Four Last Songs for me. Her Bei Schlafgehen is divine and delicate beyond my imagination until I listened to it.
Anyway I found myself off the topic...as Four Last Songs is not an opera (Better point it out myself before others do)
(Better point it out myself before others do)41 - 60 of 90 Posts
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