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Spotify (and YouTube)

1058 Views 26 Replies 9 Participants Last post by  Couchie
(Couldn’t find a recent thread about this, so starting a new one.)

I’ve noted the predominant use of YouTube on TC. Which, I must say, surprises me just a little bit.

First, there’s the energy consumption issue. Using video streaming when all you are really after is audio is not exactly climate-friendly. And yes, I think that matters. Because it does.

Secondly, a page crammed with embedded YouTube players tend to slow down most computers. Which is, at best, annoying (however convenient the player in itself may be).

Thirdly, there is indeed a royalty system in place at YouTube. But it doesn’t always work. And yes, I think that matters too.

I’ve been using Spotify since (I think) 2009. And, frankly, I couldn’t imagine being without it.

And yes, doing efficient searches for classical will take some practice and experience (it helps learning to use tags, for instance; go google it…). Spotify is tailor-made for popular music, not classical. But the real downside is that any search will yield "extras". It's not pinpoint (but I'm afraid that's how algorithms work these days, and yes, that sucks). Figuring out how search works is nonetheless worth the effort, IMO. And you will figure that out. It’s not rocket science.

Anyway, Spotify is an incredibly powerful tool for mining the catalogue (off the top of my head, the only big(ish) label I can think of that’s missing from Spotify is Hyperion). With the added advantage, of course, that you can also listen to the catalogue.

It’s also convenient. You can organize your music. As you would any collection. (Really, the worst thing about Spotify is that it's almost too convenient. Addictive personalities should probably stay well clear of it.)

And it also has good sound quality (sound quality-wise Spotify is not vastly but perceptibly superior to anything you can find on YouTube). It's not state of the art audiophile stuff. But it's more than OK (and I'm not exactly insensitive to these matters). If it sounds really nasty, I'm guessing the problem lies somewhere else along the chain between source and ears. And if you get crappy sound from Spotify, you’ll most likely get crappy sound from YouTube as well. (Some YouTube audio is highly compressed, which might account for it coming across as more ”pleasing”.)

Still, if it sounds like **** (compared to cd or vinyl), try this:

  1. If you’re on a computer (and you should be if it’s classical you’re after) always use the desktop player (downloadable) and always use the highest quality audio setting (obviously).
  2. Use high quality open headphones (if you do use headphones, that is; I couldn’t live without mine). I have a pair of unbelievably ancient but trustworthy Sennheisers (HD600). (The HD600 aren’t exactly cheap. But there are plenty of more expensive alternatives out there. In comparison I’d say the HD600’s are cheap.)
  3. Get a good quality headphone amp. Or at least a decent quality one. (Anyhow, decent headphones and a headphone amp is good to have regardless of your listening source.)
  4. If none of this helps, you probably have an antique sound card in your computer. If that’s the case I suggest you start there.

And yes, it's fairly obvious that using bad equipment results in bad sound. I'm just saying that if Spotify sounds like a bag of nails (as some claim), then there's probably something not quite right further down the line. Because it really shouldn't sound like a bag of nails. And definitely not compared to YouTube.

And no, I’m not being paid by Spotify (I wish I was, though). I’m just a little taken aback by the amount of (in most cases highly unnecessary) video streaming going on around here.

Thank you.
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Oh well, it's all in the ears of the beholder. I know what I hear and that's all that matters to me.
Actually its in the auditory cortex. That is where our interpretations of sound waves take place.

It is very understandable that someone will prefer a less transparent speaker. But like I said above, that is a personal preference. It can't be stated as a general statement.

Something else to be careful of is people who will sit and listen to Beethoven 's 9th on one set of headphones and then again on another set of headphones to compare the two.
Our auditory memory is only 3-5 seconds. So this method obviously not accurate.
(Couldn’t find a recent thread about this, so starting a new one.)

I’ve noted the predominant use of YouTube on TC. Which, I must say, surprises me just a little bit.

First, there’s the energy consumption issue. Using video streaming when all you are really after is audio is not exactly climate-friendly. And yes, I think that matters. Because it does.

Secondly, a page crammed with embedded YouTube players tend to slow down most computers. Which is, at best, annoying (however convenient the player in itself may be).

Thirdly, there is indeed a royalty system in place at YouTube. But it doesn’t always work. And yes, I think that matters too.

I’ve been using Spotify since (I think) 2009. And, frankly, I couldn’t imagine being without it.

And yes, doing efficient searches for classical will take some practice and experience (it helps learning to use tags, for instance; go google it…). Spotify is tailor-made for popular music, not classical. But the real downside is that any search will yield "extras". It's not pinpoint (but I'm afraid that's how algorithms work these days, and yes, that sucks). Figuring out how search works is nonetheless worth the effort, IMO. And you will figure that out. It’s not rocket science.

Anyway, Spotify is an incredibly powerful tool for mining the catalogue (off the top of my head, the only big(ish) label I can think of that’s missing from Spotify is Hyperion). With the added advantage, of course, that you can also listen to the catalogue.

It’s also convenient. You can organize your music. As you would any collection. (Really, the worst thing about Spotify is that it's almost too convenient. Addictive personalities should probably stay well clear of it.)

And it also has good sound quality (sound quality-wise Spotify is not vastly but perceptibly superior to anything you can find on YouTube). It's not state of the art audiophile stuff. But it's more than OK (and I'm not exactly insensitive to these matters). If it sounds really nasty, I'm guessing the problem lies somewhere else along the chain between source and ears. And if you get crappy sound from Spotify, you’ll most likely get crappy sound from YouTube as well. (Some YouTube audio is highly compressed, which might account for it coming across as more ”pleasing”.)

Still, if it sounds like **** (compared to cd or vinyl), try this:

  1. If you’re on a computer (and you should be if it’s classical you’re after) always use the desktop player (downloadable) and always use the highest quality audio setting (obviously).
  2. Use high quality open headphones (if you do use headphones, that is; I couldn’t live without mine). I have a pair of unbelievably ancient but trustworthy Sennheisers (HD600). (The HD600 aren’t exactly cheap. But there are plenty of more expensive alternatives out there. In comparison I’d say the HD600’s are cheap.)
  3. Get a good quality headphone amp. Or at least a decent quality one. (Anyhow, decent headphones and a headphone amp is good to have regardless of your listening source.)
  4. If none of this helps, you probably have an antique sound card in your computer. If that’s the case I suggest you start there.

And yes, it's fairly obvious that using bad equipment results in bad sound. I'm just saying that if Spotify sounds like a bag of nails (as some claim), then there's probably something not quite right further down the line. Because it really shouldn't sound like a bag of nails. And definitely not compared to YouTube.

And no, I’m not being paid by Spotify (I wish I was, though). I’m just a little taken aback by the amount of (in most cases highly unnecessary) video streaming going on around here.

Thank you.
I recently tried Spotify and found Amazon unlimited more suited to my tastes. Nuff said.
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I recently tried Spotify and found Amazon unlimited more suited to my tastes. Nuff said.
I too use Amazon but only because of its ultra HD offerings.
Its search function is very poor, its connectivity/controller feature is limited, the delete function is flawed, the different platforms (tablet, smartphone, laptop) do not offer the same options nor minor each other.
Spotify , In my experience offers the best features but not the best quality. So I put up with Amazon Ultra to assure the best quality.
Better than Tidal Masters but few realize this.
Margins on all luxury goods appear excessive. They are. But there are also higher costs involved in statement products which evaporate down the chain.
Marketing of luxury goods is far more costly than mass market goods. Takes a ton of money to build a brand.
Lower gross sales also increases the cost of goods as does customer service.

Don't dismiss psychoacoustics completely as our perceptions are our reality. In other words, I never have an issue with anyone saying they heard a vast improvement in audio when they acquire a new piece of equipment. I challenge them when they claim their new piece of equipment is better, its unquestionable, etc... and do not qualify or quantify it as happened in this thread above.

I also thing a lot of differences in speakers is that unlike components, they do not all sound the same . They are voiced differently. So cans can sound different and the label of better applied when it's really just a differance we hear.
And yes, I am a member of Audiosciencereview along with other science based sites in audio.
What I don't like about these sites is the constant ridicule of those not as familiar with the science. The constant belittling term "audiophool."
They continually speak to the arrogance of the high end audio boards. I find the high end audio board far more friendly than the science boards.

Peace
I could be wrong but I doubt the marketing of luxury headphones is higher than that of mass market headphones, especially because the online headphone community is enthusiastic enough that most marketing seems to consist of sending demos to a handful of people that measure and review them. The mass-market brands probably have to do much more actual advertisement to attract consumers rather than the enthusiasts that are the primary targets for the luxury models.

I wasn't dismissing psychoacoustics at all! It's a legitimate science that's demonstrated a lot of about how and why we hear what they do. When I was first getting into audio nobody had any clue about the importance of horizontal dispersion in our perception of how speakers sounded, and now it's a very common talking point when evaluating speakers both from manufacturers and the more educated consumers like on ASR. However, I would caution against the plethora of placebos out there; we know it's very easy to fool ourselves when it comes to audio. I'd assume that's why you you, like myself, put a lot of stock in measurements!

No arguments that speakers and headphones can sound radically different, I just don't think price correlates well with "better." So much of what goes into price isn't about the R&D that goes into making speakers sound as good as possible, and this borne out by measurements.

I do agree I could do without the ridicule of those who are uninformed about audio science; but at the same time there are many that cling to that ignorance and refuse to learn. As I get older it becomes harder for me to suffer fools lightly; and by "fools" I mean those specific kinds of people who are arrogant in their ignorance and stubborn in their refusal to learn.
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we know it's very easy to fool ourselves when it comes to audio
It's not just audio. The same is true in all aspects of out life.
Heck, our eyes don't actually see, our ears don't actually hear. They transmit the stimuli received to the brain. Then our brain, in a two part process, in two different areas of the brain, interprets it. First it decodes the actural stimuli. Then that part of the brain transmits the signal for interpretation.
I won't even get into what our eyes actually see and don't. It's amazing.
We are not at all as we think ourselves to be is the bottom line.

I'd assume that's why you you, like myself, put a lot of stock in measurements!
absolutely

Then you have the whole, things sound better the more you listen to them. Familiarity with a speaker or piece of music. This is no longer a theory. This is now proven science.
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I too use Amazon but only because of its ultra HD offerings.
Its search function is very poor, its connectivity/controller feature is limited, the delete function is flawed, the different platforms (tablet, smartphone, laptop) do not offer the same options nor minor each other.
Spotify , In my experience offers the best features but not the best quality. So I put up with Amazon Ultra to assure the best quality.
Better than Tidal Masters but few realize this.
Point well taken. Certainly there is room for improvement in each of the apps. In my experience, Spotify seemed to have an inferior Classical recording selection than Prime Unlimited in some areas. I have been able to find Prime recordings with ease.
Spotify users may enjoy my web app: Composer Explorer
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