Suffering for deep music?
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Suffering
I can't decide. I'd say it depends on the kind of suffering. Short term suffering can make one appreciate the good things all the more. Long term can simply destroy you. For expression we need contrast. So some suffering is perhaps neccesary.
This reminds me of a quote from Faust;
Meph; you make do with dark and light.
Faust; and yet I choose it!
I can't decide. I'd say it depends on the kind of suffering. Short term suffering can make one appreciate the good things all the more. Long term can simply destroy you. For expression we need contrast. So some suffering is perhaps neccesary.
This reminds me of a quote from Faust;
Meph; you make do with dark and light.
Faust; and yet I choose it!
That's what music is, the relfection of our world, the reflection of Human Experience.
hence, you can't understand some composer's works, because you do not share the same experience, for example:
You can't understand Mahler if you are not a loner in world who is suffering from a terminal illness.
hence, you can't understand some composer's works, because you do not share the same experience, for example:
You can't understand Mahler if you are not a loner in world who is suffering from a terminal illness.
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I don't think you nessecarily need to suffer persay. I think life experience helps but ultimately music is a form of expression, it expresses sadness, anger, greif, frustration, happiness, joy. It expresses every emotion and I think most people can deeply express their happiness and their grief, it doesn't mean you have to be a beaten, battered person growing up and then have your life crumble in front of you, it just means that it's a different depth of your soul you are tapping into to express a different emotion, feeling or point in ones life.
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Suffering and Deep Music
It's a fascinating question.
My own opinion is that a person does not necessarily need to suffer himself to write deep music but almost certainly will do so. Let me try to explain what I mean -
Great music resonates within us who are musical. Suffering is often conveyed to us in great music. But I would not argue that a man must be physically crucified to receive salvation or to receive the knowledge of what he has been saved from. One must avoid become a person who beats oneself with chains, or who believes that we MUST suffer to be holy.
The empathy we have is therefore God-given and is a part, a feature of our salvation - 'as the deep calleth unto the deep' etc. And therefore, I think, our very being, our soul, is freed to empathise with those who suffer and to understand suffering, whether we personally experience that suffering or not in our own invididual lives.
But each person must decide for himself what he empathises with and what he relates to. No other person can teach him. His instinct is his guide. The musician seeks to resolve groans too deep for words and, I think, the more he is musical the more successfully he simplifies and resolves that which must be uttered. He cannot empathise with all things. He must above all else work towards peace in his own soul and this through a world full of suffering.
Robert Newman
It's a fascinating question.
My own opinion is that a person does not necessarily need to suffer himself to write deep music but almost certainly will do so. Let me try to explain what I mean -
Great music resonates within us who are musical. Suffering is often conveyed to us in great music. But I would not argue that a man must be physically crucified to receive salvation or to receive the knowledge of what he has been saved from. One must avoid become a person who beats oneself with chains, or who believes that we MUST suffer to be holy.
The empathy we have is therefore God-given and is a part, a feature of our salvation - 'as the deep calleth unto the deep' etc. And therefore, I think, our very being, our soul, is freed to empathise with those who suffer and to understand suffering, whether we personally experience that suffering or not in our own invididual lives.
But each person must decide for himself what he empathises with and what he relates to. No other person can teach him. His instinct is his guide. The musician seeks to resolve groans too deep for words and, I think, the more he is musical the more successfully he simplifies and resolves that which must be uttered. He cannot empathise with all things. He must above all else work towards peace in his own soul and this through a world full of suffering.
Robert Newman
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Chopin certainly thought so supported by this quote
Today I finished the Fantasy - and the sky is beautiful, a sadness in my heart - but that's alright. If it were otherwise, perhaps my existence would be worth nothing to anyone. Let's hide until death has passed.
Today I finished the Fantasy - and the sky is beautiful, a sadness in my heart - but that's alright. If it were otherwise, perhaps my existence would be worth nothing to anyone. Let's hide until death has passed.
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I'm thinking the question itself is steeped in the influence of arch-romantic conceits.
It presumes, also, that music is somehow a medium capable of directly expressing the emotions or emotional state of the composer at the time of its being written.
All in all, I think the idea a very "romantic" notion.
It presumes, also, that music is somehow a medium capable of directly expressing the emotions or emotional state of the composer at the time of its being written.
All in all, I think the idea a very "romantic" notion.
G
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·First asked more than 8 years ago. Odd that it attracted so little attention, given the number of posters willing to entertain this and similar ideas about music and the emotions.
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Suffering is part of being human. The people who feel that a composer hasn't suffered because they don't have a sympathetic, heart-wrenching tale of overcoming adversity remind me of petulant teens that scream "YOU'LL NEVER UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M GOING THROUGH" at their parents.
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Just about every artist has some sadness when they complete a work -- the reason being they most enjoyed being in the middle of making it up. Once finished, there is a sort of disappointment... in the form of a conceit / expression from that era, "a little death" which fades quickly enough.
I think the quote you cited is therefore "correct" while completely misinterpreted in this context.
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it can be deeply cheerful music. so no
Perhaps only a man as cold as Wagner could write what Tristan became. Only one that could have a rational "coldness" in his shoulders to have the courage to the able to write about the true depth of love. Perhaps he never felt as deep as Tristan felt.
On the other hand, and in a lighter music, Jacques Brel must have really felt to be the scum of society to write Ne me quitte pas. I think that when you are the same situation as he was, you can, then, truly understand about what he wrote.
And back to opera again, we have Verdi, who describe human feeling, as they really are, with music. Each note of his in, let's say, Rigoletto reflects the exact emotion in every part of the action. I don't think also that he had to suffer to compose Cortigianni vil razza. He was a great observer of the world, a very meticulous painter, a precise writer that could describe exactly every moment with the proper words.
On the other hand, and in a lighter music, Jacques Brel must have really felt to be the scum of society to write Ne me quitte pas. I think that when you are the same situation as he was, you can, then, truly understand about what he wrote.
And back to opera again, we have Verdi, who describe human feeling, as they really are, with music. Each note of his in, let's say, Rigoletto reflects the exact emotion in every part of the action. I don't think also that he had to suffer to compose Cortigianni vil razza. He was a great observer of the world, a very meticulous painter, a precise writer that could describe exactly every moment with the proper words.
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I would like to slightly alter the question to this: Do you need to have suffered greatly to write "deep" music?
Reason being, everyone has suffered something in their life. No one has a perfect, pain-free life, not even the wealthy and influential. It's impossible not to suffer in this world. Thus, suffering is a given for any composer.
However, does a composer need to suffer greatly, that is, have unusually terrible circumstances in their life, to write deep music? To that, I would say no.
Reason being, everyone has suffered something in their life. No one has a perfect, pain-free life, not even the wealthy and influential. It's impossible not to suffer in this world. Thus, suffering is a given for any composer.
However, does a composer need to suffer greatly, that is, have unusually terrible circumstances in their life, to write deep music? To that, I would say no.
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...what complete nonsense.
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Perhaps Gustav "understands" more musical works now that he has suffered the ignominy of being banned?
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A healthy dollop each of:
Empathy
Intelligence, both I.Q. and E(motional) Q
Talent, native and then further developed
Rigorous discipline applied to the craft.
Et voilà. No requisite deep suffering required to make a piece which evokes "deep" responses in the listener.
Empathy
Intelligence, both I.Q. and E(motional) Q
Talent, native and then further developed
Rigorous discipline applied to the craft.
Et voilà. No requisite deep suffering required to make a piece which evokes "deep" responses in the listener.
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