Classical Music Forum banner
1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
388 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I want to open a competition between the pieces of Bach.

Why Bach? Because I want to do the same with many composers and I have to start with someone. At the end, the awarded pieces of each composer will compete between each others.

To complete this competition, three phases are required:
  • Setup
  • Enrollment
  • Competition

In the Setup Phase we have to define the categories.

In the Enrollment Phase users will insert the pieces for the different defined categories.

In the Competion Phase the pieces inside each category will compete between each others.


This thread is for the Setup Phase.

What we have to do here is quite simple: define the catgories with a democratic process.

The problem is that it doesn't make so much sense a competion between a solo piece and an orchestral piece, so we need some categories that make sense for most people. At the same time, we have to try to keep things simple. I don't want 100 categories. Just a few.
Keep in mind that the categories must work for all classical music composers, because when the pieces of different composer will compete between each others the categories will have to work.

For example:
  • Solo (pieces with only one instrument)
  • Chamber (pieces for a little ensemble of instruments)
  • Orchestral

Do you want to split solo pieces in more categories?

Solo for keyboard, solo for organ, solo for violin, and so on?

Here below each user can submit his model and then we will do a poll to determine the best one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
388 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The set-up looks fine to me except for one giant missing link - vocalism (lieder/choral/opera).

Yes, you could split every category but that would result in dilution.
Ok, could you write your list of categories?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
388 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Solo
Chamber
Orchestral
Vocal
Thanks.

A sonata for violin accompanied by piano (to make an example) should be considered a solo or a chamber piece? An if we divide the instrumental music according to the used force, shouldn't we do the same with vocal?

Solo instrumental
Chamber instrumental
Orchestral instrumental

Chamber vocal
Orchestral vocal
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,945 Posts
His catalog is already divided into "types" by BWV numbers (because trying to organize them chronologically was impractical). Perhaps that might help with categories.

BWV 1–224 Catatas
BWV 225–231 Motets
BWV 232–243 Latin liturgical
BWV 244–249 Passions and oratorios
BWV 250–438 Four Part Chorales
BWV 439–524 Small vocal works
BWV 525–771 Organ compositions
BWV 772–994 Other keyboard works
BWV 995–1000 Lute
BWV 1001–1040 Other Chamber music
BWV 1041–1071 Orchestral
BWV 1072–1078 Canons
BWV 1079–1080 Late contrapuntal

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
388 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
His catalog is already divided into "types" by BWV numbers (because trying to organize them chronologically was impractical). Perhaps that might help with categories.

BWV 1–224 Catatas
BWV 225–231 Motets
BWV 232–243 Latin liturgical
BWV 244–249 Passions and oratorios
BWV 250–438 Four Part Chorales
BWV 439–524 Small vocal works
BWV 525–771 Organ compositions
BWV 772–994 Other keyboard works
BWV 995–1000 Lute
BWV 1001–1040 Other Chamber music
BWV 1041–1071 Orchestral
BWV 1072–1078 Canons
BWV 1079–1080 Late contrapuntal

Thanks, but the categories must be generic and must work with all composers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,945 Posts
Thanks, but the categories must be generic and must work with all composers.
Oh, sorry, between the thread title

Talkclassical best pieces of J.S. Bach award - Setup

and the OP

I want to open a competition between the pieces of Bach.

Why Bach? Because I want to do the same with many composers and I have to start with someone. At the end, the awarded pieces of each composer will compete between each others.

To complete this competition, three phases are required:
  • Setup
  • Enrollment
  • Competition

In the Setup Phase we have to define the categories.

In the Enrollment Phase users will insert the pieces for the different defined categories.

In the Competion Phase the pieces inside each category will compete between each others.


This thread is for the Setup Phase.

What we have to do here is quite simple: define the catgories with a democratic process.

The problem is that it doesn't make so much sense a competion between a solo piece and an orchestral piece, so we need some categories that make sense for most people. At the same time, we have to try to keep things simple. I don't want 100 categories. Just a few.
Keep in mind that the categories must work for all classical music composers, because when the pieces of different composer will compete between each others the categories will have to work.

For example:
  • Solo (pieces with only one instrument)
  • Chamber (pieces for a little ensemble of instruments)
  • Orchestral

Do you want to split solo pieces in more categories?

Solo for keyboard, solo for organ, solo for violin, and so on?

Here below each user can submit his model and then we will do a poll to determine the best one.
. . . I guess I mistakenly thought that you wanted a Bach-exclusive competition.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37,516 Posts
Thanks.

A sonata for violin accompanied by piano (to make an example) should be considered a solo or a chamber piece? An if we divide the instrumental music according to the used force, shouldn't we do the same with vocal?

Solo instrumental
Chamber instrumental
Orchestral instrumental

Chamber vocal
Orchestral vocal
A piece of music for 2 instruments is not a solo work.

Personally, I wouldn't want to split the vocal category.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
388 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Oh, sorry, between the thread title

Talkclassical best pieces of J.S. Bach award - Setup

and the OP



. . . I guess I mistakenly thought that you wanted a Bach-exclusive competition.
Yes, it is a Bach competition. But later, the pieces which will have won this competition will compete with pieces of others composers. For future puroposes I need categories that works for all classical music.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,945 Posts
A piece of music for 2 instruments is not a solo work.

Personally, I wouldn't want to split the vocal category.
Hmm. There are chants, oratorios, masses, operas, leider and other art songs, and other choir works. And Beethoven's 9th Symphony 4th mvt.

That's a pretty broad category.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,333 Posts
Hmm. There are chants, oratorios, masses, operas, leider and other art songs, and other choir works. And Beethoven's 9th Symphony 4th mvt.

That's a pretty broad category.
Split it sacred vocal, secular vocal. Mostly instrumental works with a choral movement should be classified as one of the instrumental categories.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37,516 Posts
Hmm. There are chants, oratorios, masses, operas, leider and other art songs, and other choir works. And Beethoven's 9th Symphony 4th mvt.

That's a pretty broad category.
Given the Op's parameters, the point is to have broad categories.

Just one more thing. I think it best that HansZimmer run this project however he wants. Usually, asking for a lot of advice turns a project into mush. With that in mind, I will refrain from offering more suggestions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,945 Posts
Given the Op's parameters, the point is to have broad categories.

Just one more thing. I think it best that HansZimmer run this project however he wants. Usually, asking for a lot of advice turns a project into mush. With that in mind, I will refrain from offering more suggestions.
Yeah, I was just trying to be helpful. He said he had a problem deciding on categories, then asked for help (suggestions?) in the form of a couple of questions:

Do you want to split solo pieces in more categories?

Solo for keyboard, solo for organ, solo for violin, and so on?


I understandably misunderstood his intent to be categories for only Bach, so that didn't help either.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
388 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Hmm. There are chants, oratorios, masses, operas, leider and other art songs, and other choir works. And Beethoven's 9th Symphony 4th mvt.

That's a pretty broad category.
With instrumental music I think I'm done.

Solo
Chamber
Orchetral

For vocal music, what about:
  • Song: every kind of vocal music piece that it's intended to be listened
  • Opera
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,637 Posts
Here's something I used for a previous 'game'. It might help. It might not.

Symphony -
Tone Poem/Suite/Overture/Ballet -
String Concerto -
Keyboard Concerto -
Brass/Wind Concerto -
String Chamber -
Keyboard Chamber -
String Sonata/Solo -
Keyboard Sonata/Solo -
Lieder/Madrigal -
Oratorio/Mass/Requiem/Cantata/Chant -
Opera/Operetta -
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
388 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
You might consider adding

  • Choral
  • Oratorio/Cantata/Masses
I think that for vocal music we need three categories:
  • One category for pieces where the lyrics are as much important as the music
  • One category for pieces where the music importance is prevalent
  • One category for pieces that are intended to be watched (like opera)

Now, the problem is to give a name to each category and determine where should be placed the different kinds of vocal music.
 
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
Top