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When people bite the baits of random astrophysical fodders, like alien Drake equation, blackhole pics, gravity waves that are detected with billionth of a nanometers variations in length of a measuring rod. They are investing billions and billions onto these experiments just to make some sensations. Actually financial math has become far more complicated than astrophysical applications. Music, nature, life belong to the core interest of everybody`s Sherlock.

General relativity is based on the undergraduate level of Riemann Geometry and Newtonian laws, and the Special R is on Laurentz law which is also undergraduate level. But financial math now requires a mature math master to do, the stochastics and time series also the random process are a hell of deep water math. I love science too why do not start with some financial math? I think I am sticking to the topic of science: This is called the "financial science."
Uh no, I can follow most derivatives pricing but Quantum Field Theory is several orders of magnitude more difficult

But physics is the most simple and basic of the sciences, which is why it has the most complex mathematics.
 

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Stop looking at the fake starlights, look at this, what do you think? Is it a really good deal for people?

QFS claims to block bankers from secret double dealing, and also to be a Golden Apple from heaven. :lol: Will you bite it and why?

This is your science :lol:
A good rule of thumb - anything that uses the word 'quantum' outside of established physics is BS - this seems no different
 

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A good rule of thumb - anything that uses the word 'quantum' outside of established physics is BS - this seems no different
You got the trick, but this scam is seriously in the air and money is pouring in. I am not urging academics to play heros, ignore my rants. Just keep safe and do your job for your own sake. I am the one to play at this level.
 

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Uh no, I can follow most derivatives pricing but Quantum Field Theory is several orders of magnitude more difficult

But physics is the most simple and basic of the sciences, which is why it has the most complex mathematics.
That is some solid math, QTF is not much a bigger issue than the financial math if you got the chance if you can do financial math at stochastics. The biggest problem for american students is the racial affirmation and money. Education in college is way cheaper in China than in the US, western students can try to get into chinese colleges to study STEM.
 

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How many posts back did this thread turn into discussion of global political issues without reference to music and for how much longer is it going to go on? A couple of times I've brought up music & politics and know it requires more careful expression to stay with music as the topic. It is possible if you try.

But I don't see current posters even trying here despite the warning in post #77. Now I think it becomes a problem for everyone -- at least for me anyway -- because I don't want to see more trouble over politics on TalkClassical.
 

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The thread has drifted way off target. Please return to focus on potentially offensive classical music.
I am religious but not superstitious, meaning that I don't usually think that hearing a classical composition is going to offend me because of its content, even if evil is presented in an ambiguous manner or portrayed directly. In these cases the content may even strengthen my resolve to resist evil. But if I sense an attempt to drag in, overwhelm, derange or brutalize the listener, who is also the viewer if it is a musical stage work, I will protest. I think there is an implicit contract of mutual respect in classical music between performers, composers, and listeners.

That said, some productions of Salome or The Rite of Spring I believe have gone too far. And as in popular music, there are works that are vile and of no artistic value. How did we ever get to the point where music deliberately tortures the paying listener? There are times when the best thing is to stay away.
 

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How did we ever get to the point where music deliberately tortures the paying listener? There are times when the best thing is to stay away.
I don't know how we got to that point, but we're also at the point where a trip to the supermarket will get you tortured by music when all you're paying for is eggs and cantaloupes.
 

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I am religious but not superstitious, meaning that I don't usually think that hearing a classical composition is going to offend me because of its content, even if evil is presented in an ambiguous manner or portrayed directly. In these cases the content may even strengthen my resolve to resist evil. But if I sense an attempt to drag in, overwhelm, derange or brutalize the listener, who is also the viewer if it is a musical stage work, I will protest. I think there is an implicit contract of mutual respect in classical music between performers, composers, and listeners.

That said, some productions of Salome or The Rite of Spring I believe have gone too far. And as in popular music, there are works that are vile and of no artistic value. How did we ever get to the point where music deliberately tortures the paying listener? There are times when the best thing is to stay away.
I agree with your approach and assessment. I have avoided Salome altogether. While I won't listen to Ave Maria in choral music, I just heard Elisabeth singing her prayer to the Virgin in Tannhauser a few moments ago and have no problem with that. Incidentally, I have six Tannhauser on DVD and with four of them I refuse to watch the first part (some 20 minutes) because of the risque imagery, so instead have converted that section to mp3 file and just listen.
 

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I don't know how we got to that point, but we're also at the point where a trip to the supermarket will get you tortured by music when all you're paying for is eggs and cantaloupes.
Yes I agree. And even at the local pharmacy, which is now also a food market and department store, deoderant or shampoo cannot be purchased without hearing the auto-tuned wailing of a distraught teenager worried that she may not have found quite the right boyfriend. All this to pounding electronic percussion programmed to scare the wrong demographic (me) out the door. But first I must pay at the automated checkout, no cashier in view, while rapping is sounded by a young male earnestly explaining that even if he doesn't seem like the right boyfriend today, he may be the one tomorrow, a thought that stuns both of them into heavy breathing as they find themselves vaulted into a major key. Alas, I never find out what happens, as the checkout line spits me outdoors into driving wind and howling rain along the bleak existential streets on a November evening -- wondering why I didn't appreciate Muzak when we had it.
 

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I don't know how we got to that point, but we're also at the point where a trip to the supermarket will get you tortured by music when all you're paying for is eggs and cantaloupes.
I guess it keeps us moving along. It is a bit like playing Mozart in public spaces to stop teenagers congregating.
 

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Discussion Starter · #92 ·
I am religious but not superstitious, meaning that I don't usually think that hearing a classical composition is going to offend me because of its content, even if evil is presented in an ambiguous manner or portrayed directly. In these cases the content may even strengthen my resolve to resist evil. But if I sense an attempt to drag in, overwhelm, derange or brutalize the listener, who is also the viewer if it is a musical stage work, I will protest. I think there is an implicit contract of mutual respect in classical music between performers, composers, and listeners.

That said, some productions of Salome or The Rite of Spring I believe have gone too far. And as in popular music, there are works that are vile and of no artistic value. How did we ever get to the point where music deliberately tortures the paying listener? There are times when the best thing is to stay away.
Finally, a great post related to the original Topic. I too agree with the above.
 

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Usually I find that things which actually, explicitly attempt to "torture" the listener (not in the way that listening to music one hates is "torture", but where the express purpose of the music is to cause discomfort or pain) do so for a similar effect to resolving dissonance, one of my favorite rock albums of the last decade or so has some songs which are just astonishingly ugly for a large part of the runtime but does so for effect in the larger scale of the song.

As far as the appeal? Catherisis, the journey from dark to light, and self-flagellation has always had some adherents.
 

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That said, some productions of Salome or The Rite of Spring I believe have gone too far.
In which way can you go too far if you are true to the intentions of either the composer or the writer? True art surely transcends notions of good and evil as it is merely itself. Both beauty and indeed ugliness are truly in the eye of the beholder.
 

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In which way can you go too far if you are true to the intentions of either the composer or the writer? True art surely transcends notions of good and evil as it is merely itself. Both beauty and indeed ugliness are truly in the eye of the beholder.
From a brief Google search it appears that Strauss did intend Salome to be unclothed at the end of the Dance of the Seven Veils. Some more recent productions have however added graphic content to the visual presentation of the opera to a greater extent than was done in Strauss's time. For The Rite of Spring, I haven't seen any suggestion that Stravinsky or Nijinsky intended to make it explicit. At the premiere the jerky and seemingly disorganized movements were what offended. Imitation assault has been staged more recently in this work, though.

I hope I haven't broken the Rules here -- and will not get any further into description. This is not a call for censorship or restriction, legal or otherwise. Rather it as statement of my own opposition to works that go beyond the depiction of evil, to the intentional drawing-in of the viewer/listener to any form of arousal through gratuitous sex or violence. This viewpoint holds regardless of the intentions of the composer, writer, or other artist. I don't agree that art of any kind may be assumed to transcend notions of good or evil.
 

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From a brief Google search it appears that Strauss did intend Salome to be unclothed at the end of the Dance of the Seven Veils. Some more recent productions have however added graphic content to the visual presentation of the opera to a greater extent than was done in Strauss's time. For The Rite of Spring, I haven't seen any suggestion that Stravinsky or Nijinsky intended to make it explicit. At the premiere the jerky and seemingly disorganized movements were what offended. Imitation assault has been staged more recently in this work, though.

I hope I haven't broken the Rules here -- and will not get any further into description. This is not a call for censorship or restriction, legal or otherwise. Rather it as statement of my own opposition to works that go beyond the depiction of evil, to the intentional drawing-in of the viewer/listener to any form of arousal through gratuitous sex or violence. This viewpoint holds regardless of the intentions of the composer, writer, or other artist. I don't agree that art of any kind may be assumed to transcend notions of good or evil.
The staging of such material is beside the point, isn't it? I thought this was about the music, and whether it has the capacity to offend.
 

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The staging of such material is beside the point, isn't it? I thought this was about the music, and whether it has the capacity to offend.
The post I was responding to referred to the intentions of the composer. In a ballet or opera of the kind mentioned, the composer's intentions most definitely involve the work as a whole, not only the music. Otherwise I don't have anything to add to my previous posts on this thread.
 

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The post I was responding to referred to the intentions of the composer. In a ballet or opera of the kind mentioned, the composer's intentions most definitely involve the work as a whole, not only the music. Otherwise I don't have anything to add to my previous posts on this thread.
...in response to your previous post about staging. :rolleyes:
 

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The post I was responding to referred to the intentions of the composer. In a ballet or opera of the kind mentioned, the composer's intentions most definitely involve the work as a whole, not only the music. Otherwise I don't have anything to add to my previous posts on this thread.
1905 an even half nude Salome would have hardly been possible. You could get this in a sleazy cabaret but no respected opera singer would partially undress on stage. The original singer at the premiere refused to do the dance at all, so it was done by a dancer.

(Picture below is probably the most daring one could do then.)

Of course it was scandalous as it was and Mahler could not produce the piece in Vienna because of official censorship. It was also banned in London for a few years and the premiere 1910 edited (not sure how).

Photograph Black Style Black-and-white Monochrome


One of the few singers to perform the dance was the Finn Aino Ackte (there is a picture as Salome in the article but not dancing)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aino_Ackté
 

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Seems like Barton’s Miraculous Mandarin could equally offend either side of the spectrum - stereotypical Fu Manchu Chinese man kills prostitute

Great music though
 
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