[Bulldog]

I have no idea why it did as well as it did and how it was able to almost consistently outpace both "She's Leaving Home" and "Something" - which, to me, are both songs that are significantly superior musically and lyrically, but if you look back, the people who voted for it consistently are nothing if not knowledgeable and so the fault must lie with me - Whatever it is that they hear, I just don't, and at this point, probably never will.

I find a few Beatles songs way too sweet for my tastes; the two above are in that category. Taxman is more to my liking.

 

[Shaughnessy]

We have reached the last of the 9 games of the Quarter-Finals and the following songs will be moving on to the 3 game Semi-Final series - 52 songs have made the cut -

There will be 3 Semi-Final games of 17, 17, and 18 titles.


Across the Universe

And I Love Her

Because

Being For the Benefit of Mr. Kite!

Blackbird

Come Together

A Day in the Life

Dear Prudence

Drive My Car

Eight Days a Week

Eleanor Rigby

The Fool on the Hill

For No One

Get Back

Glass Onion

Got to Get You Into My Life

A Hard Day's Night

Help!

Here Comes the Sun

Here, There and Everywhere

Hey Bulldog

Hey Jude

I Am the Walrus

I Want To Hold Your Hand

I Want You (She's So Heavy)

I'm Only Sleeping

In My Life

Julia

Lady Madonna

Let It Be

Lovely Rita

Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds

Magical Mystery Tour

Michelle

Norwegian Wood

Nowhere Man

Oh! Darling

Paperback Writer

Penny Lane

She Loves You

She's Leaving Home

Something

Strawberry Fields Forever

Taxman

Ticket to Ride

Tomorrow Never Knows

When I'm Sixty-Four

While My Guitar Gently Weeps

Within You Without You

Yesterday

You Never Give Me Your Money

You've Got to Hide Your Love Away

 

[Shaughnessy]

Game 1 of the 3 game Semi-Finals is now live and can be found here -

Note: Six selections from each game will be moving on to an 18 song Final

"The Great Songs of... The Beatles" -...

Welcome to "The Great Songs of... The Beatles" - Semi-Finals - Game 1 of 3 "The Great Songs" is a popular music game thread that will cover the recorded legacy of a group or individual performer(s). The primary criteria to be used in the selection and eventual voting process are - Performance...

www.talkclassical.com

 

[Forster]

If only there existed the possibility of actually voting over more than one day. I know some people manage it, but Game 9 lasted from only 22/6 to this morning - a bare 48 hours - and I didn't manage to get in a second vote. I wouldn't want to prolong the vote unduly, but can we make sure that the final at least is allowed to run for a set time period - say 5 days - rather than a meagre 100 points which, with some clever gaming, can rather distort the process. It's possible - as in Game 9, for the last person to post to actively affect not the winner - which won by a comfortable margin - but certainly some of the other positions.

Or is that the point, and I'm just a rookie who's not played before and doesn't understand?

 

[Shaughnessy]

If only there existed the possibility of actually voting over more than one day. I know some people manage it, but Game 9 lasted from only 22/6 to this morning - a bare 48 hours - and I didn't manage to get in a second vote. I wouldn't want to prolong the vote unduly, but can we make sure that the final at least is allowed to run for a set time period - say 5 days - rather than a meagre 100 points which, with some clever gaming, can rather distort the process. It's possible - as in Game 9, for the last person to post to actively affect not the winner - which won by a comfortable margin - but certainly some of the other positions.

Or is that the point, and I'm just a rookie who's not played before and doesn't understand?

This Beatles game is kind of an outlier - I had a second vote (which was also the last) but if one or two posts had been played differently, the game would not have lasted for even a day.

Most games need from 3 to 5 days to reach a conclusion but there is merit in reconsidering how the final is going to be played - If enough players participate, the game could be over in 12 hours or less.

We'll open this question up for discussion - We could consider a definite time period or increase the number of points which determines when the game ends.

It's a popular game - And all of you have my profound thanks for making it so- If there is a way to extend it, let's see if we can devise a method which meets with general approval.

Thanks for the suggestion - Keep them coming...

 

[Shaughnessy]

This Beatles Semi-Final game is racing by - One idea - Increase the number of points needed to win from 100 to 200 which might be kind of a nightmare to manage due to the amount of post crashes which happen.

Or... Keep playing until 6 songs reach 100 points - The top six from each of the 3 Semi-Final games will move on to a Final with 18 selections.

I tried this once before - It extended the playing time so much that the games seemed to take between "forever" and "eternity" to play - But that was on a classical theme that didn't have the horse-power of this one.

Weigh in with comments and opinions...

It's pretty straightforward - There are always 3 selections which race each other to the top thus effectively ending the game.

If we kept on playing until all six had reached 100 that might make the number 4, 5, and 6 slots more competitive and keep the game going that much longer.

Or... we could just start over from the beginning with Game 1 and keep playing until we get it right -

 

[SanAntone]

IMO, leave the game alone. I lose interest the longer the game takes.

 

[Marc]

Biggest disappointment - You're Going to Lose That Girl not making the cut - It's a personal favorite - Another classic Lennon vocal.

Biggest surprise - Within You Without You - Along with the White Album, I have consistently underrated and underestimated Harrison's work with the Beatles. I enjoy his tunes (in general) - Have all of his solo albums which I prefer to his output with the Beatles (excepting, of course, Here Comes the Sun and Something).

To me, round 9 might be the first round with the 'right' selection.

I.c. Harrison: overall, I personally prefer his Beatles output. I kinda consider his All Things Must Pass masterpiece as mostly a selection of songs-that-were-rejected-in-the-last-Beatles-years.
But the same goes for Lennon's and McCartney's solo output. I prefer their Beatles stuff (in general). However, when Lennon is concerned: his first album is lit. As he once said in an interview, it's 'Sgt. Lennon'.

(All VERY personal ot course.)

 

[Marc]

IMO, leave the game alone. I lose interest the longer the game takes.

I'm not into gaming anyway.
Making a choice is gonna be more difficult though. I might lose sleep because of it. That's a reason to leave the game alone for sure.

 

[pianozach]

To me, round 9 might be the first round with the 'right' selection.

I.c. Harrison: overall, I personally prefer his Beatles output. I kinda consider his All Things Must Pass masterpiece as mostly a selection of songs-that-were-rejected-in-the-last-Beatles-years.
But the same goes for Lennon's and McCartney's solo output. I prefer their Beatles stuff (in general). However, when Lennon is concerned: his first album is lit. As he once said in an interview, it's 'Sgt. Lennon'.

(All VERY personal ot course.)

It's hard to NOT get personal with The Beatles and the ex-Beatles catalogs. Name any song or album, and the discussion can turn heated in an instant.

ALL THINGS MUST PASS? Yes, masterpiece. Mostly rejected songs? No, but enough Beatles rejects for it to appear so. George started stockpiling songs, and would often not even bother to bring them in, as he know they'd get a sloppy treatment from John (if any at all), even though once a song was granted access, Paul and Ringo would always be completely on board. This is where George's "signature slide guitar" sound makes its debut, but he actually didn't play any of the slide guitar on this album. Phil Spector's Wall of Sound is overused and oppressive, and he's fired before the album is completed, but his stamp on the album remains. Some folks write off the bonus Apple Jam 3rd disc, but, like Revolution No. 9 from The White Album, it gave the album a unique stamp. Besides, those types of jams were a staple of OTHER bands at the time, George just took it to an extreme.

Personally, while Harrison's songs with the Beatles are mostly pretty good, I really love almost all of his solo output.

Lennon's and McCartney's solo output? Several unused songs that likely WOULD have eventually been developed and placed on albums. You can hear a lot of future solo McCartney songs in development during the GET BACK sessions. Cold Turkey, on the other hand, was a Beatles reject, considered too un-Beatley (yet Revolution No. 9 did make it onto the White Album). Paul's first album, though, was panned at the time, but, in retrospect gets its props for being a proto-alternative-indie precursor. And Paul, in a passive way, proved that he could do it all.

John' Plastic One Band debut album? Sgt. Lennon? Um, no, John. An extremely short mix of hard rock and folk, with dirty words for shock value, primal scream therapy translated into song, and love songs about Yoko. Some mild protesting for its own sake. But, man, he sure embraced minimalism big-time, and did it well.

 

[Marc]

It's hard to NOT get personal with The Beatles and the ex-Beatles catalogs. Name any song or album, and the discussion can turn heated in an instant.

ALL THINGS MUST PASS? Yes, masterpiece. Mostly rejected songs? No, but enough Beatles rejects for it to appear so. George started stockpiling songs, and would often not even bother to bring them in, as he know they'd get a sloppy treatment from John (if any at all), even though once a song was granted access, Paul and Ringo would always be completely on board. This is where George's "signature slide guitar" sound makes its debut, but he actually didn't play any of the slide guitar on this album. Phil Spector's Wall of Sound is overused and oppressive, and he's fired before the album is completed, but his stamp on the album remains. Some folks write off the bonus Apple Jam 3rd disc, but, like Revolution No. 9 from The White Album, it gave the album a unique stamp. Besides, those types of jams were a staple of OTHER bands at the time, George just took it to an extreme.

Personally, while Harrison's songs with the Beatles are mostly pretty good, I really love almost all of his solo output.

Lennon's and McCartney's solo output? Several unused songs that likely WOULD have eventually been developed and placed on albums. You can hear a lot of future solo McCartney songs in development during the GET BACK sessions. Cold Turkey, on the other hand, was a Beatles reject, considered too un-Beatley (yet Revolution No. 9 did make it onto the White Album). Paul's first album, though, was panned at the time, but, in retrospect gets its props for being a proto-alternative-indie precursor. And Paul, in a passive way, proved that he could do it all.

John' Plastic One Band debut album? Sgt. Lennon? Um, no, John. An extremely short mix of hard rock and folk, with dirty words for shock value, primal scream therapy translated into song, and love songs about Yoko. Some mild protesting for its own sake. But, man, he sure embraced minimalism big-time, and did it well.

Many good points imho, but, honestly, I find Harrison's solo career less interesting, after a great start.
During the 1980s he seemed to get back into good form though.

Oh, and I love John's Plastic Ono Album first album. I don't care if it was for his or its own sake. Those things happen in art and with artists. Lennon's interview with Rolling Stone's Jann Wenner (end of 1970?) explains a lot about his feelings at that particular time. It's a very interesting read, but in the end the only thing valuable about music and art to me is: when I like it, I like it. I.c. Lennon: after that particular album, I slowly become less interested.

Paul's Wings and solo stuff is a mixed bag. His first albuim was also embracing minimalism, yet less convincing than Lennon's first. But, during his entire career, there's plenty to enjoy.

Summarized: yes, I'm with those who think that they all brought out the very best in each other... which is during the Fab4 years. After that, they still delivered marvellous stuff, but it was much more uneven.

(All VERY personal of course.)

 

[SanAntone]

This is an interesting YT interview with George Martin discussing Beatles songs and albums in chronological order.

George Martin Discusses The Beatles Albums

 

[Shaughnessy]

Game 2 of the Semi-Finals is now live and can be found here -

"The Great Songs of... The Beatles" -...

Welcome to "The Great Songs of... The Beatles" - Semi-Finals - Game 2 of 3 "The Great Songs" is a popular music game thread that will cover the recorded legacy of a group or individual performer(s). The primary criteria to be used in the selection and eventual voting process are - Performance...

www.talkclassical.com

 

[Marc]

This is an interesting YT interview with George Martin discussing Beatles songs and albums in chronological order.

George Martin Discusses The Beatles Albums

Saw some nice documentaries (or parts of them) on the telly with mr. Martin, and it was always interesting and a pleasure to watch & listen to.

[EDIT: I heard this one before, I think the rough unedited version was uploaded once on YT.]

 

[Shaughnessy]

Game 3 of the Semi-Finals is now live and can be found here -

"The Great Songs of... The Beatles" -...

Welcome to "The Great Songs of... The Beatles" - Semi-Finals - Game 3 of 3 "The Great Songs" is a popular music game thread that will cover the recorded legacy of a group or individual performer(s). The primary criteria to be used in the selection and eventual voting process are - Performance...

www.talkclassical.com

 

[Marc]

Game 3 of the Semi-Finals is now live and can be found here -

"The Great Songs of... The Beatles" -...

Welcome to "The Great Songs of... The Beatles" - Semi-Finals - Game 3 of 3 "The Great Songs" is a popular music game thread that will cover the recorded legacy of a group or individual performer(s). The primary criteria to be used in the selection and eventual voting process are - Performance...

www.talkclassical.com

For me, the toughest one so far.

 

[Bulldog]

This Beatles game is kind of an outlier - I had a second vote (which was also the last) but if one or two posts had been played differently, the game would not have lasted for even a day.

Most games need from 3 to 5 days to reach a conclusion but there is merit in reconsidering how the final is going to be played - If enough players participate, the game could be over in 12 hours or less.

We'll open this question up for discussion - We could consider a definite time period or increase the number of points which determines when the game ends.

I might as well chime in here. I see an easy solution here - drop the 20 point maximum to 10 points. An additional advantage is that the voting would be more of a challenge; I love a good challenge.

 

[Shaughnessy]

I might as well chime in here. I see an easy solution here - drop the 20 point maximum to 10 points. An additional advantage is that the voting would be more of a challenge; I love a good challenge.

You're always welcome to "chime in" - The entire point of asking for input is to actually receive a variety of responses that represent a wide range of opinions.

One thing that I would never do that I once gave consideration to - increasing the point totals to a number larger than 100 - There are too many crashes and some of the players are still putting up out of date boards. That would just be asking for trouble - It's tough enough getting to 100 without trying to double that.

This series of Semi-Finals has changed my opinion about the need to slow the game down as I have already seen evidence that the games are being played differently than they were in the 9 game Semi-Finals.

In that first set of 9 games which each had 16 selections, only 5 to 6 had any real chance of advancing to the top 5 - Almost three-quarters of the selections were abandoned by the second day and the only competitive position open was the fifth slot which usually had 2 songs competing for that last position.

In this 3 game Semi-Final series, everything changed - Suddenly there were at least 8 highly competitive songs which were trading places almost on a post by post basis. It became much more difficult for any of the songs to put much distance between themselves and the competitors. I've seen times where no one would play the top five and would instead use their points to bring up the songs which were slotted in the 6th, 7th, 8th, and sometimes 9th position. There was much more jockeying for positioning and once players felt that they had brought those mid-level songs up to a position in which they could compete for those number 5 and 6 slots, the game would once more kick into gear.

Once we reach the Final - we are then faced with 18 songs which are going to be highly competitive - I don't see players being willing to abandon songs as readily as they did in the Quarter-Finals and Semi-Finals.

Of the 18 songs, 15 have seen fairly fierce partisanship play and consequently each is as capable of finishing in the Top Ten as any of the others.

I appreciate the suggestion to change to 10 points but what I see happening is players deciding to play two sets of 4's and 5's rather than strategically maneuvering around the board using 1's, 2's, and 3'.s which you anticipate happening. I think that those mid-tier songs will not be as competitive.

I've seen the slowdown in play and think that perhaps we should leave well enough alone but, having said that, if there is significant support for an alternative, I'm willing to entertain further thoughts.

The only other alternative which actually did work in slowing down the game was making each of the 10 songs reach the 100 point level.

This did not work in any of the classical-themed games as most players did not have that sense of a vested interest in the selections - They had 2 to 3 favorites and the other 6 to 10 selections were of little to no interest and people were pretty much just going through the motions.

The difference with the Beatles game is that just about everyone has at least 10 songs that they're willing to play in order for them to reach that Top Ten status.

We still have about a day to decide.

Another reason that I would hesitate to switch to 10 points is that I've already used that total for over 20 games and if we switch, it may cause an additional layer of confusion.

Also, once I return to classical themed games, I need that 20 point Max to be in play as they won't be drawing Beatles-like attendance figures.

We'll see how Game 3 plays itself out and go from there.

My thanks for the advice and suggestions - If nothing else, they force me to clarify and justify any decisions which are then made.

Jaysus... If only I could find a way to make the games as long as these fecking posts...

 

[Forster]

My earlier suggestion to allow a little more time was simply so that I had time to vote twice. That particular round went so quickly that I only had time to post once. Allowing a minimum number of hours (say 72 - that's only 3 days and makes better allowance for the time zone issue), but keeping the 100 point winner threshold would at least give the also-rans a chance for a late run into a place.

 

[Shaughnessy]

The easiest solution - Leave the game as it is - Stay with 20 points - First to reach 100 ends the game.

What we will do is change the focus of the game - The 9 Quarter-Finals and 3 Semi-Finals were always geared towards 5 to 6 selections advancing to the next round. At some point in the game, selections were abandoned and most concentrated on trying to get 3 to 4 of their favorite tunes into the top 5.

In the Final, we'll think more in terms of determining the "Top 10 Beatles Songs" or even the "Top 20" rather than focusing on who finishes first. Although finishing first will always be a factor to some, the idea is that we're more interested in arriving at a general consensus of the "Great" songs whether that total is 10 or 20.

We'll have 18 selections in the Finals as a result of voting and I can either add the next 2 highest point totals from the 3 games or select the 3 highest from each and create a 1 day poll of 9 with the two highest advancing. Only the votes cast by players will count - Any non-player votes in the poll get tossed.

If players think in terms of trying to advance a group of 10 songs rather than a series of single selections, this may have the effect of creating a game that will last longer than 12 hours and which will incorporate an increased level of challenge and competition as suggested by Bulldog.

These kinds of problems should have been easier to deal with and less confusing but I'm not retired or semi-retired and I'm still routinely working 10 to 12 hours a day and what seems insightful when written at night is borderline gibberish when read in the morning.

It will all work out and we can take comfort from knowing that whatever the final results may be, we'll all be equally unhappy -

Lastly, we could always play an additional game in which we select numbers 11 through 20.