The Met Saturday Morning Broadcasts are back.....

Woodduck said:

People need to affirm their values one way or another. If we can't do it by applauding what we hear, we can at least do it by panning it. It's our consolation prize, and it gives purpose to an otherwise pointless experience. If we can satirize bad singing we can avoid, at least momentarily, being depressed over the reality of the opera house that once presented Caruso and Gadski now giving us de Leon and Crocetto.

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I feel ambivalent about this.

On one hand, when you put it that way, which makes it sound harsh, singers seems to be reduced to a mere object of entertainment. When they please us, we applaud. And when it's the opposite, we ridicule. It's my nature that i'm more hesitant towards "satirizing" or "mocking" (which is certainly not the same as "plainly or constructively criticizing") anyone. Since my logic is singers are human beings, they can have off days and they do work hard on their craft too. But then which singers are we talking about? And how do we know who they really or how dedicated they are to their work without getting to know them in person? I don't mean to direct all of this at you. It's more like i'm asking myself here.

On the other hand, with many people in the industry (including singers) genuinely believing that there's nothing wrong with vocal technique today, and even getting uncomfortable or defensive when it's being pointed out, i wonder if this "satire" is needed (kinda like This is opera) as a wake-up call to bring people's attention to the better tradition that we once had.

I feel ambivalent about this.
On one hand, when you put it that way, which makes it sound harsh, singers seems to be reduced to a mere object of entertainment. When they please us, we applaud. And when it's the opposite, we ridicule. It's my nature that i'm more hesitant towards "satirizing" or "mocking" (which is certainly not the same as "plainly or constructively criticizing") anyone. Since my logic is singers are human beings, they can have off days and they do work hard on their craft too. But then which singers are we talking about? And how do we know who they really or how dedicated they are to their work without getting to know them in person? I don't mean to direct all of this at you. It's more like i'm asking myself here.

On the other hand, with many people in the industry (including singers) genuinely believing that there's nothing wrong with vocal technique today, and even getting uncomfortable or defensive when it's being pointed out, i wonder if this "satire" is needed (kinda like This is opera) as a wake-up call to bring people's attention to the better tradition that we once had.
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Tsquare:
I very much appreciate your post above that gave me some guilt because I am constantly annoyed that a company the calibre of the Met would cast 2nd rate singers these days -- something that rarely happened in the 70's, 80's, 90's etc. I am not referring to the Golden Age of opera where training was much more comprehensive and singers were more patient to wait before entering into roles they are not yet ready to face. But even before the 2010 years, there were still plenty of fine singers. I do not relish sitting on my hands and I am not a "booer" which I find despicable, so my guilt comes from expressing my frustration to like-minded persons on Talk Classical and other similar forums.
I am interested to know who these singers are who actually think their vocal technique is adequate and become defensive. It is an interesting topic and one that might generate some better understanding and training.
It's hard to believe that there are no longer any competent teachers out there who have studied past training and implement it today.
I am sad because there still are some very fine singers today who would certainly have fit in to the past days -- but the list is dwindling fast and I wonder why.

Another thing that frightens me is that the Met would drastically decide to change their system by welcoming modern opera to the extent they seem to be doing. Believe me, I have no objection to modern opera -- I welcome it in fact, as long as it is worthy and not being offered only as a caress to new composers to keep up with new audiences who may prefer updated productions and works. The list of new works offered next season is quite comprehensive.
Perhaps if the Met would welcome more of the past operas rarely heard from to balance the new (ex. Poliuto, L'amore dei tre re, Bank Ban, Louise, L'arlesienne), it might become a more exciting format with an interest for all types of opera devotees.
I thank you for your thought provoking post and hope there is an answer to please the majority of opera lovers.

nina foresti said:

I am interested to know who these singers are who actually think their vocal technique is adequate and become defensive. It is an interesting topic and one that might generate some better understanding and training.

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Thank you for bringing this up. Maybe i shouldn’t have said it as if it's a stone-cold fact. But i strongly feel that's the case. As if many people are unware or simply in denial about it. At least that’s how i feel from what i see (and hear) on the internet and social media (Youtube, Instagram, Facebook, Slippdisc, etc). But examples of people getting, ranging from mild uncomfortable to defensive, i think i do have a few. The most recent one is Sonya Yoncheva getting frustrated with Z.Woolfe criticism of her Norma and calling all the people who compare modern singers to past singers “vocal racist”. On Limmie Pulliam’s Youtube, you can see how when someone points out his lack of clear diction, his response is “Post your own singing and we’ll see” or he accuses who dislike his singing as being disgruntled or bitter. Or when Angel Blue asks Thomas Hampson on her talk show about this golden age nostalgia, he brushes it aside and says something to the effect of those who believe it are foolish (sadly Ms. Blue deleted all of her videos). Or when Sondra Radvanovsky asks Lise Davidsen on how she feels about being compared to her golden age Norwegian predecessor (Kirsten Flagstad), she simply says people shouldn’t compare anyone to a legend, without realizing that Flagstad had a lot more steadiness and clarity to her tone than Davidsen’s herself. I remember Elina Garanca saying something about how we’ll never have another Stignani or Callas, implying that it’s pointless to look at the past. Or when somebody mention “This is opera” channel on a live chat of Lisette Oropesa, the only response from her is “not everyone has to like Corelli, not everyone has to like Callas”, a way to deflect the correct message about correct vocal production that channel is trying to convey (although the manner of the people who ran that channel to me are boorish and deplorable, verge on cyber bullying). That’s all I can give you, but I have a feeling that singers are quite pleased with themselves, to the point that they are oblivious to how inferior their vocal production is compared to past singers in general.

But then to say I hate them would be a lie. In fact the reason that I follow all of them is I actually admire a lot of the things that they do. Many of them seems very kind and likable, and they are generous to their colleagues and young singers. Without them, opera would probably be in tomb right now. And it’s probably not easy for anyone to whistleblower, since that person has to survive and fit it. It’s actually hard for them to not encourage and defend their colleagues. Even with that kind of tribalism, that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t point out this fact that is so obvious. Colossal voices (Flagstad, Melchior,etc) are not be seen anywhere (not that I know of), but big voices we still have some. My biggest disappointment is that tone production today is not pure (off pitch, unmusical), mushy diction and everyone seems to sound the same from one to another. There’s already a thread about this long time ago here:
I think is clear that laziness is probably not one of the factor. But then I genuinely don’t know why things has come to the way they are now. Maybe planning many years in advance? Lack of talents? Focusing more on looks? More travelling? Which seems to lead to more singing?

nina foresti said:

I very much appreciate your post above that gave me some guilt because I am constantly annoyed that a company the calibre of the Met would cast 2nd rate singers these days -- something that rarely happened in the 70's, 80's, 90's etc. I am not referring to the Golden Age of opera where training was much more comprehensive and singers were more patient to wait before entering into roles they are not yet ready to face. But even before the 2010 years, there were still plenty of fine singers. I do not relish sitting on my hands and I am not a "booer" which I find despicable, so my guilt comes from expressing my frustration to like-minded persons on Talk Classical and other similar forums.

Click to expand...

I think I understand where you’re coming from when you say “guilt”. We want to be kind, we want to give the singers the benefit of the doubt but the whole thing feels so hopeless that criticism seems like a must.

nina foresti said:

Another thing that frightens me is that the Met would drastically decide to change their system by welcoming modern opera to the extent they seem to be doing. Believe me, I have no objection to modern opera -- I welcome it in fact, as long as it is worthy and not being offered only as a caress to new composers to keep up with new audiences who may prefer updated productions and works. The list of new works offered next season is quite comprehensive.
Perhaps if the Met would welcome more of the past operas rarely heard from to balance the new (ex. Poliuto, L'amore dei tre re, Bank Ban, Louise, L'arlesienne), it might become a more exciting format with an interest for all types of opera devotees.

Click to expand...

Good idea! Did Peter Gelb and Yannick think about that? But whatever they do, i hope it will be a sucess. We all want it to survive after all.

tsquare07 said:

Thank you for bringing this up. Maybe i shouldn’t have said it as if it's a stone-cold fact. But i strongly feel that's the case. As if many people are unware or simply in denial about it. At least that’s how i feel from what i see (and hear) on the internet and social media (Youtube, Instagram, Facebook, Slippdisc, etc). But examples of people getting, ranging from mild uncomfortable to defensive, i think i do have a few. The most recent one is Sonya Yoncheva getting frustrated with Z.Woolfe criticism of her Norma and calling all the people who compare modern singers to past singers “vocal racist”. On Limmie Pulliam’s Youtube, you can see how when someone points out his lack of clear diction, his response is “Post your own singing and we’ll see” or he accuses who dislike his singing as being disgruntled or bitter. Or when Angel Blue asks Thomas Hampson on her talk show about this golden age nostalgia, he brushes it aside and says something to the effect of those who believe it are foolish (sadly Ms. Blue deleted all of her videos). Or when Sondra Radvanovsky asks Lise Davidsen on how she feels about being compared to her golden age Norwegian predecessor (Kirsten Flagstad), she simply says people shouldn’t compare anyone to a legend, without realizing that Flagstad had a lot more steadiness and clarity to her tone than Davidsen’s herself. I remember Elina Garanca saying something about how we’ll never have another Stignani or Callas, implying that it’s pointless to look at the past. Or when somebody mention “This is opera” channel on a live chat of Lisette Oropesa, the only response from her is “not everyone has to like Corelli, not everyone has to like Callas”, a way to deflect the correct message about correct vocal production that channel is trying to convey (although the manner of the people who ran that channel to me are boorish and deplorable, verge on cyber bullying). That’s all I can give you, but I have a feeling that singers are quite pleased with themselves, to the point that they are oblivious to how inferior their vocal production is compared to past singers in general.

But then to say I hate them would be a lie. In fact the reason that I follow all of them is I actually admire a lot of the things that they do. Many of them seems very kind and likable, and they are generous to their colleagues and young singers. Without them, opera would probably be in tomb right now. And it’s probably not easy for anyone to whistleblower, since that person has to survive and fit it. It’s actually hard for them to not encourage and defend their colleagues. Even with that kind of tribalism, that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t point out this fact that is so obvious. Colossal voices (Flagstad, Melchior,etc) are not be seen anywhere (not that I know of), but big voices we still have some. My biggest disappointment is that tone production today is not pure (off pitch, unmusical), mushy diction and everyone seems to sound the same from one to another. There’s already a thread about this long time ago here:

State of modern operatic singing

I have created this thread in order to have a proper discussion concerning one of the most important aspect of opera, which is singing. While some criticize, like me, the current state of operatic singing, others appreciate what they hear and are great admirers of the current stars of the...

www.talkclassical.com

I think is clear that laziness is probably not one of the factor. But then I genuinely don’t know why things has come to the way they are now. Maybe planning many years in advance? Lack of talents? Focusing more on looks? More travelling? Which seems to lead to more singing?

I think I understand where you’re coming from when you say “guilt”. We want to be kind, we want to give the singers the benefit of the doubt but the whole thing feels so hopeless that criticism seems like a must.

Good idea! Did Peter Gelb and Yannick think about that? But whatever they do, i hope it will be a sucess. We all want it to survive after all.

Click to expand...

I believe that Lise Davidsen was simply agreeing that she herself doesn't compare to a "legend" like Flagstad and that she, in fact, does realize that Flagstad had more steadiness and clarity to her tone. I think she was intimating that the Golden Years were a force to be reckoned with. It is rare for a singer to recognize the truth about what is happening today with our singers and face it openly.
Yoncheva, Pulliam etc. are simply protecting their own, as would anyone who was being criticized. It is not an easy thing to read detrimental writings about one's performance and be equally forthright to see that maybe there was something to it. Criticism is not easy to take and perhaps even more difficult to open one's eyes to see where the other side just may have some merit.
My heart goes out to any of the singers today who are being judged harshly, but it is, sadly, part of the game and they will help themselves to either not read these things or else get a tough skin and do what they can to turn salt into margaritas.