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Remark by Art Rock: this thread was created to split off an interesting side discussion that originated in an Area51 thread, especially posts 3-6 in the current thread. Please focus on the thread title in the discussion.

I have had it. I refuse to believe living composers and not as good as dead ones.
 
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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Although I have read some interesting posts, none of them address my frustration.

There are many in the classical community who think that living composers are not as good as pre-20th century composers.

As an amateur musician I have had the good fortune to meet many outstanding composers. To my ears their music is just as good as anything composed in the 19th century.

I do not have the expertise to explain why since I am not a musicologist. My feelings are based solely on my experiences as a performing musician.
 
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Discussion Starter · #58 ·
Let us not turn this into another 'modern music is bad' thread. There have been plenty of other threads for that, and I'm sure there will be plenty more.
Art Rock,

I appreciate what you are trying to accomplish but the enemies of living composers will continue to appear in threads like this and try to sabotage the discussion. Over the years many of us have tried to provide examples of good modern music to no avail.
 

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Discussion Starter · #61 ·
This question is a crushing disappointment to me, because it suggests you have not clicked on each and every youtube link in my posts here over the past few months, and raises the distinct possibility you have clicked on none of them. :eek: I'm going to go get some ice cream now, and attempt to recover my self-esteem.
Some living composers use CPT, some do not. We have been providing examples of contemporary composers that use the same notes as Brahms. Yet these members continue to reject our experiences.
 

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Discussion Starter · #73 ·
I have provided lists of composers.

Why bother if the list will be rejected as over-intellectualized garbage.
 

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Discussion Starter · #77 ·
Disagreeing and pointing out that all is not hunky dory and sweetness and light in the art music world is not "sabotage" or "trolling" or "bullying", and pointing out the problems doesn't make me or anyone else an "enemy of living composers". There are some whose work I do not like, as is my prerogative. That's just inflammatory gunk. Blame the audience, blame governments, blame technology, blame anybody but the artists. Bull****.
The problem is that in the real world I have had to deal with orchestra boards who think just like you do who believed that our music organizations should never program modern music.
 

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Discussion Starter · #78 ·
Well if it's quality work, I don't know why it would matter to you what anyone calls it. Some would call Bach's cantatas the bloviating of a religious fanatic. I don't care and don't have to cry about it.

I listened to the Balch piece "Drip Music" mentioned above. Sorry, but it sounds like some string players noodling around. One of the things that irritates me a little is the focus purely on sound characteristics. Ok, I'll write a work for cello played with a toothbrush and steel wool...some really interesting sonorities...So much seems to be sonorities and soundscapes, which strikes me as "I really don't have much to say."
What is wrong with John Corigliano Gazebo Dances?

Let me guess. You and many others are going to tell.

In spite of the critics, there are many of us who are still going to explore and enjoy contemporary music.
 

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Discussion Starter · #81 ·

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Discussion Starter · #105 ·
Where did I ever say none of this music should ever be programned or heard? I'm so sorry about your traumatic experiences with orchestra boards, but that doesn't mean I have to like every tiny bit of cacophony out there.
It appears that you are not against music groups programming contemporary music. But I know many who do.

There are some members here who are very critical of contemporary music. The question that I am searching the answer for is what do they hope to accomplish by winning the argument?
 

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Discussion Starter · #107 ·
Where did I ever say none of this music should ever be programned or heard? I'm so sorry about your traumatic experiences with orchestra boards, but that doesn't mean I have to like every tiny bit of cacophony out there.
Frustrated yes, but traumatized?

People have a right to like and dislike whatever they want.
 

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Discussion Starter · #115 ·
Well, given how often you bring it up, it must've been kinda traumatic.

Absolutely.
I'm not trying to win any argument. I'm just stating my opinion. The question I have is why do I have to be silent or pretend to like something that I don't?
OK. You win the argument you were not trying to win.
 

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Discussion Starter · #123 ·
It seems that most members would be interested in the composers I like instead of me getting on a soapbox and complaining about those that I dislike.

I think that most of us are smart enough to realize that some living composers are better than others.
 
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Discussion Starter · #330 ·
Sorry, I wasn't referring to you as "the modernists". My "modernist" was intended to be a caricature of one end of a spectrum of opinions. The intention was to sketch positions in an extremely polarised way in order to highlight the differences of opinion that seem to exist.
I know.

But if one reviews the history of these debates one would find that only a very small percentage of the members who follow contemporary music have a problem with the traditionalist view. We only have problems with the very small percentage of the members who believe that music organizations should not program contemporary music. We had a poll a few years ago in this forum where 10% of the recipients felt music organizations should never program contemporary music.

I hesitate to mention this because the last time I did I was recently accused of being "traumatized" by my experiences with those who want to ban the programming of contemporary music.

Disclaimer: I will no longer respond to any provocative statements that imply that I am overly sensitive.
 

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Discussion Starter · #437 ·
I believe I understand your point, but I think one problem with contemporary classical music is that it's not so easy to find it. When I was young, I listened to the radio for popular music, and that's where I heard new songs that I liked. There was a clear place for me to go where new music was introduced. When I became interested in contemporary classical, I had no idea where to find it. Basically I used TC as a source of that music. After awhile I slowly came to learn of other sources for contemporary classical, but it was frustrating not knowing how to find the music.
Sirius Radio has a show devoted to contemporary American Music.
 

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Discussion Starter · #477 ·
I am aware of several of those from Wikipedia. My point was for any given symphony orchestra that bears a local/national name who is receiving government subsidies (i.e. money funded by tax payers), it would be unwise to have programs only on contemporary music. I have seen orchestras fail by incorporating larger shares of such music in a vain attempt to appease entities.
OK. Can you provide us with a list of such orchestras that have failed.
 
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