Toscanini's treatment of singers (Pinza, Morgana,etc)

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tsquare07

Discussion Starter · 5 d ago (Edited)

This is an excerpt from the James A. Drake's interview with the coloratura soprano Nina Morgana, who was discovered by Caruso himself.

Font Screenshot Document Number Electric blue

Source:

https://giglithemastertenor.com/ws/media-library/93f7dc2524834c2e9bd513f115812c48/nina-morgana-interview_final_ba_nocopy.pdf

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tsquare07

Discussion Starter · #2 · 5 d ago (Edited)

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Seattleoperafan

· #3 · 5 d ago

He could get exciting performances out of singers, such as Traubel and Melchior in Wagner. He must have been an h* to work with.
Horowitz married Toscanni's daughter and their child had tremendous psychiatric issues being the product of such volatile artist temperaments.

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RICK RIEKERT

· #4 · 5 d ago

Jan Peerce recalls a conversation with Toscanini when the subject of coloratura sopranos came up: “Coloratura sopranos! If I had a daughter who wanted to be a coloratura soprano, I would cut her throat!”

Peerce continues, “In the Fidelio of 1944 he worked us very hard. Mind you, he didn’t speak German well, but he knew every word and corrected our German and made us enunciate it clearly. His tempi were fast; but he could explain every one of them. Some of the singers had done Fidelio at the Met, and everybody had ideas and feelings in the matter; and they could talk to him. “Maestro, is there any reason special for this? Don’t you think we could do it a little slower?” And he would tell you why you couldn’t—what would happen if you did. He said, “How should this man act? If you sing it slowly, you will lose the intensity!” But he listened to you; he wasn’t the ogre he was painted. The only time he was a tough guy was when he got angry; and when would he get angry? When he thought you were betraying the composer, weren’t doing what the composer wanted. If you made a mistake once, he’d give you a look; but if you made it again, or made more mistakes, then there was hell to pay. In Fidelio one day he lost his temper with a singer who made a mistake he had made the day before, and it was terrible: the man stood there crying because of the things Toscanini called him.”

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nina foresti

· #5 · 5 d ago

RICK RIEKERT said:
Jan Peerce recalls a conversation with Toscanini when the subject of coloratura sopranos came up: “Coloratura sopranos! If I had a daughter who wanted to be a coloratura soprano, I would cut her throat!”

Peerce continues, “In the Fidelio of 1944 he worked us very hard. Mind you, he didn’t speak German well, but he knew every word and corrected our German and made us enunciate it clearly. His tempi were fast; but he could explain every one of them. Some of the singers had done Fidelio at the Met, and everybody had ideas and feelings in the matter; and they could talk to him. “Maestro, is there any reason special for this? Don’t you think we could do it a little slower?” And he would tell you why you couldn’t—what would happen if you did. He said, “How should this man act? If you sing it slowly, you will lose the intensity!” But he listened to you; he wasn’t the ogre he was painted. The only time he was a tough guy was when he got angry; and when would he get angry? When he thought you were betraying the composer, weren’t doing what the composer wanted. If you made a mistake once, he’d give you a look; but if you made it again, or made more mistakes, then there was hell to pay. In Fidelio one day he lost his temper with a singer who made a mistake he had made the day before, and it was terrible: the man stood there crying because of the things Toscanini called him.”

Is there a book to purchase?

ScottK

· #6 · 5 d ago

The stories make me very glad that the world.....in large measure......has grown to the point that uncontrolled temper is looked upon by many as the weakness that it is. I like temperament. I despise many of the Toscanini stories.

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Bonetan

· #7 · 5 d ago

ScottK said:
The stories make me very glad that the world.....in large measure......has grown to the point that uncontrolled temper is looked upon by many as the weakness that it is. I like temperament. I despise many of the Toscanini stories.

I spent sometime today imagining how I would react if a conductor disrespected me in front of an entire cast in this manner. Violence was all I could come up with. Please don't judge me 😂

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MAS

· #8 · 5 d ago

There’s no excuse for anybody to treat people with the disrespect Toscanini showed the singers and his orchestra. Not temperament, bad temper pure and simple.

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RICK RIEKERT

· #9 · 5 d ago

nina foresti said:
Is there a book to purchase?

The books to get are Bernard Haggin's Arturo Toscanini: Contemporary Recollections of the Maestro and Cesare Civetta's The Real Toscanini.

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Monsalvat

· #10 · 5 d ago

I heard an audiotape of him either rehearsing or recording something, completely losing his temper at the double basses who were dragging the tempo. I suppose fear is one way of motivating people, but I'm glad that his way of obtaining results has fallen to the wayside.

Another good book about Toscanini is his biography by Harvey Sachs, “Musician of Conscience.” It's a new one, not a second edition of the older Harvey Sachs biography, but a complete rewrite. I've started reading it, but haven't finished (yet).

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Steatopygous

· #11 · 5 d ago

You can get an idea from this famous recording of Toscanini attacking his double basses. Only goes two minutes. He gets utterly volcanic - Vesuvian, as Morgana so aptly said.

Toscanini DESTROYS a bass section - YouTube

Sorry, it seems I don't know how to post a YT clip, but that search will bring it up.

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nina foresti

· #12 · 5 d ago

RICK RIEKERT said:
The books to get are Bernard Haggin's Arturo Toscanini: Contemporary Recollections of the Maestro and Cesare Civetta's The Real Toscanini.

My thanks. I will look into it.

Woodduck

· #13 · 4 d ago

If Toscanini had been in some other line of work he'd have been fired, possibly arrested, or even committed to a mental institution.

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tsquare07

Discussion Starter · #14 · 4 d ago

Woodduck said:
If Toscanini had been in some other line of work he'd have been fired, possibly arrested, or even committed to a mental institution.

What other professions are you talking about? 😯 I can only think of those angry sport coaches who yell and scream all the times.

Woodduck

· #15 · 4 d ago

tsquare07 said:
What other professions are you talking about? 😯 I can only think of those angry sport coaches who yell and scream all the times.

Those are the only professions you can think of? Those are the ones I never think of.

tsquare07

Discussion Starter · #16 · 4 d ago (Edited)

Woodduck said:
Those are the only professions you can think of? Those are the ones I never think of.

I didn't mean to be sarcastic earlier. I said i personally can only think of that. I'm just wondering when you say arrested or put into mental asylum, what professions are you thinking of?

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nina foresti

· #17 · 4 d ago

How's stomping on watches, one after the other, for mental instability? How's constantly breaking his batons?
How is constantly bringing someone down with insults? Are these not signs of a man in trouble with himself?

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tsquare07

Discussion Starter · #18 · 4 d ago

nina foresti said:
How's stomping on watches, one after the other, for mental instability? How's constantly breaking his batons?
How is constantly bringing someone down with insults? Are these not signs of a man in trouble with himself?

I don't deny that he's not normal. I'm just asking what profession that Woodduck has in mind, like when he says "some other line of work". I'm just curious about that.

Monsalvat

· #19 · 4 d ago

Librarians, perhaps? Really any other line of work where "star talent" isn't called for. It is a good point, though the arts can encourage people with big personalities and commensurately large egos, which might not be so prevalent in other lines of work.

tsquare07

Discussion Starter · #20 · 4 d ago

Monsalvat said:
Librarians, perhaps? Really any other line of work where "star talent" isn't called for. It is a good point, though the arts can encourage people with big personalities and commensurately large egos, which might not be so prevalent in other lines of work.

All the readers who return books late shall face the wrath of Toscanini the libarian 😡

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