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Strange Magic said:
The longevity of CM is largely the staying power of its audience, attuned as they are to hearing the favored old familiar melodies over and over. That and the intellectual/social panache of being counted among the Best and Brightest People.
Pure unvarnished assertion. How do you know what anyone's motivations are for listening to classical music? You can only speak for yourself without projecting what may be your motives onto someone else. And PJ Harvey is still "a thing"?
 

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Strange Magic said:
That and the intellectual/social panache of being counted among the Best and Brightest People.
Quick, name me ten of those classical-loving 'Best and Brightest People" among whom I aspire to be numbered.

And pop's advantage is that it offers more sex and woke politics? Where is the pop Winterreise or Marriage of Figaro? I'm as much a pop fan as anyone else, but come on.
 

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Just as an aside, it's funny how classical can be considered as something that could either increase or decrease social status. Listening to classical could make you look sophisticated, or... it could make you look like a snob who's just too good for whatever the "unwashed masses" listen to.
Actually if you want to increase your social status you'd be writing paeans to hip hop.
 

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Discussion Starter · #227 ·
Quick, name me ten of those classical-loving 'Best and Brightest People" among whom I aspire to be numbered.

And pop's advantage is that it offers more sex and woke politics? Where is the pop Winterreise or Marriage of Figaro? I'm as much a pop fan as anyone else, but come on.
Actually (and you will find this hard to accept) my post was not all about you. But the pattern of your responses remains unchanged--a tribute to your perseverance. Why not develop your complaints about my posts into an actual essay or thesis carefully unrolling your position. I've missed it so far.
 

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Actually (and you will find this hard to accept) my post was not all about you. But the pattern of your responses remains unchanged--a tribute to your perseverance. Why not develop your complaints about my posts into an actual essay or thesis carefully unrolling your position. I've missed it so far.
It didn't have to be all about me. And the reply wasn't all about you, either. See?

Maybe I'm not pretentious enough to think that I have a thesis to offer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #229 ·
It didn't have to be all about me. And the reply wasn't all about you, either. See?
Was that your thesis? Seriously, why not sit down and compose a reasoned position statement outlining and summarizing your views on art? I would be interested. Your gift so far is to lob squibs from the sidelines, but that must eventually grow stale.
 

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Was that your thesis? Seriously, why not sit down and compose a reasoned position statement outlining and summarizing your views on art? I would be interested. Your gift so far is to lob squibs from the sidelines, but that must eventually grow stale.
Yes, squibs, challenging statements that I think are open to challenge. Your sweeping generalization (as usual) wasn't about me but it didn't exclude me either. Meanwhile I did ask some questions above that you ignore. Name ten of these Best and Brightest classical lovers that I fancy myself being among.
 

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Discussion Starter · #231 ·
Yes, squibs, challenging statements you make. Your sweeping generalization (as usual) wasn't about me but it didn't exclude me either. You pontificate and I'll keep providing the squibs. Meanwhile I did ask some questions above that you ignore. Name ten of these Best and Brightest classical lovers that I fancy myself being among. For someone who's always going on about and demanding scientific precision, you sure do generalize a lot.
I understand. I am to name 10 best and brightest classical lovers that you fancy yourself being among. Now how would I know that? You would know far more about that. It really, really isn't all about you. It is clear that the idea of a defining thesis is foreign to you. Continue to lob those squibs instead! :rolleyes:
 

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Are we sure that classical art aims to deal in truths and psychological insights that are more universal? I'm not sure that is always the case or even most of the case.
Of course it doesn't, depending on what you mean by "aim." A great deal of what art represents and signifies isn't a result of conscious "aim." The more abstract arts such as music may not aim at anything but delightful and satisfying form, but that is far from from a meaningless objective. The perception and love of form is fundamental to our very natures as conscious beings, and so the play of form, both as the abstract expression of mental activity and as the representation of human gesture, utterance, and the trajectories of emotion, is a primary focus in the music we call "classical." Popular music tends to go no further into the exploration of form than it needs to in order to get its explicit message across.

I also can think of many popular songs that deal explicitly in issues that classical music only rarely touches if at all. They don't last as long as some classical music (of which Sturgeon tells us accurately 90% of which is crap) due to the fact that another song comes along to displace it,
Popular art is almost always explicitly about something, namely the concerns, events, fashions and sensibilities of its time. That's one reason why it tends to be - though it needn't be - more time-bound, more ephemeral. Classical music often ensures its longevity partly by not being explicitly "about" anything, though it may definitely be about something not, or only roughly, describable.

What is more profound that the realization that humankind is driving the world's wildlife into extinction through environmental vandalism? Listen to Ian & Sylvia's Antelope. Listen to PJ Harvey's album Let England Shake. There are innumerable songs about good love, bad love, and everything in between, with the music well tuned to the lyrics. Even songs about life and death (of all things)! The Blues. Cante flamenco.
Again, explicit "aboutness" does nothing in the long run to ensure music's attractiveness beyond its time and place. It may have the opposite effect by limiting the precious flow of ideas from the artist's subconscious and so narrowing the "aim" of the work and its possible meaning for listeners, present and future.

The longevity of CM is largely the staying power of its audience, attuned as they are to hearing the favored old familiar melodies over and over. That and the intellectual/social panache of being counted among the Best and Brightest People. That includes me, though I certainly also love the music--among many musics--very much. I await somebody telling me that I cannot possibly love CM as much as they do or as it is correct to do so.
What a load of #@$%&*$#.
 

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I understand. I am to name 10 best and brightest classical lovers that you fancy yourself being among. Now how would I know that? ...
Pick any of the well-known Best and Brightest classical fans. Surely you can think of some...

Oh, wait a second. Maybe what you're saying is that if I listen to Bach, then that makes me feel that I'm one of the Best and Brightest. But to be honest something like the B Minor Mass or the Art of Fugue just shows me how stupid I am, if anything. Trying to play Bach or Beethoven and do justice to the music, even more so.
 

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What a load of #@$%&*$#.
Now now Woodduck. We mustn't talk about precise scientific observation in those terms.
... It is clear that the idea of a defining thesis is foreign to you. Continue to lob those squibs instead! :rolleyes:
You seem to be having some problems too on that front. No, I'm not into making word salads.
 
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