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Rudeness to you can be honesty to someone else.
There's absolutely no need to get mad at other people for having differences of opinion. I do respect your views too, btw. I don't think they're objectively wrong or unreasonable. Just different ways (to look at things) from mine.
 

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Sorry but I'm detecting traces of some kind of objectivity in statements like that. It's somehow objectively true that nothing is really "garbage". I'm just following the logic of "every vote is equally valid".
There is a difference in expressing an opinion and rendering a judgment. I am only really interested in discussions of opinions and find judgment based statements to be presumptuous and disrespectful. It is probably at the root of why people think of Classical music fans as snobs.

I am also not interested in philosophical debates about whether art/music can be objectively assessed.

For me, the interest is in getting to know someone through their description of the kind of music which they find interesting and engaging. Not in hearing about the music they think is better than another kind of music, or the kind of music they think is garbage.
 

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Just to try to answer for the sake of making things more social, hopefully, the type of bad faith accusations that tend to be bad for discussion, which thankfully haven't been happening a lot lately, are accusations that one side in a discussion does not genuinely like the music they say they do, and only are saying so to look smart/cool/progressive/trendy/etc. Once you've gone into claiming that one side of a discussion is lying, further discussion isn't possible.
 

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This seems like a bizarre derail.
It's not a derail at all, it's getting some definition.
Just to try to answer for the sake of making things more social, hopefully, the type of bad faith accusations that tend to be bad for discussion, which thankfully haven't been happening a lot lately, are accusations that one side in a discussion does not genuinely like the music they say they do, and only are saying so to look smart/cool/progressive/trendy/etc. Once you've gone into claiming that one side of a discussion is lying, further discussion isn't possible.
Well if "one side" suspects that (another form of "you can't possibly really like that stuff") then you in your subjective wisdom know that it's not possible to prove your true devotion to this music, and you just pass it by like any other subjective opinion. But "the music you like is stupid" isn't the same as "you're stupid". Also it's interesting that apparently only one side is susceptible to such "bad faith".

What this is demonstrating is that all votes aren't equally valid, are they? There are acceptable votes and unacceptable ones.
 

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There's a long and probably boring discussion that could be had about the subjective values of etiquette, social tact, etc but I think the acronym "DBAA" sums it up.


Calling someone a liar is extremely confrontational. There are areas where being extremely confrontational may be appropriate but the discussion of musical tastes tends not to be one of them.
 

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There's a long and probably boring discussion that could be had about the subjective values of etiquette, social tact, etc but I think the acronym "DBAA" sums it up.


Calling someone a liar is extremely confrontational. There are areas where being extremely confrontational may be appropriate but the discussion of musical tastes tends not to be one of them.
Well who's judging what an "A" is? I don't think etiquette demands that if I think this music is "bad", and my opinion is solicited, then I must remain silent.
 

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Well who's judging what an "A" is? I don't think etiquette demands that if I think this music is "bad", and my opinion is solicited, then I must remain silent.
This is a music discussion message board. This is not Fight Club, or a drunken screaming match. I would hope people at the very least have a shared goal of discussing music, otherwise I would question why they are on a music discussion message board.
 

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Well you really didn't define either. Just "opinion good" "judgement bad".
Opinion = expressing like/dislike, always interpreted as a subjective, personal, view
Judgment = expressing value or worth, usually implying some objective basis

Opinion is neutral, respectful of others' opinions; judgment presumes the superiority of a personal view stemming from an elevated opinion of oneself.
 

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Opinion = expressing like/dislike, always interpreted as a subjective, personal, view
Judgment = expressing value or worth, usually implying some objective basis
I don't see how the statement "hip hop is crap" can't fit into both.

Opinion is neutral, respectful of others' opinions; judgment presumes the superiority of a personal view stemming from an elevated opinion of oneself.
So "it's all subjective, but your subjective reaction should follow these guidelines".
 

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is it really necessary to re-create the concepts of tact and social diplomacy from first principles via discussion
Tact and diplomacy in expressing an aesthetic opinion? Why would it be necessary at all, since it's understood that all such opinions are subjective anyway? If someone says they hate Baroque music, that's a valid response. If someone says they hate avant garde, that's a personal attack.
 
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