I don't really care much for symphonies, to tell you the truth. Well, not as much as chamber music. & in terms of that, I've just been listening to Dvorak's Piano Trio #3 in F minor & I'd definitely put it on the same level as Beethoven's mighty "Archduke" trio. So in my books, with my priorities, in terms of what I value most highly, they are EQUAL (& that should have been an option in the poll, definitely, or at least the traditional "banana" vote)...

 

Dude, I can't believe you even said that. I'm gonna have to get that Dvorak Piano Trio as Beethoven's 'Archduke' Trio is one of my most favorite chamber works. I'm going to Classical Archives right this minute!

 

is this a trick question?

 

Taken as a complete set of nine symphonic works, Beethoven's is in my humble opinion the greatest set of symphonies ever composed. HOWEVER, Dvorak's final three symphonies are easily on equal footing with any of the Beethoven nine.

 

That's why I choosed Beethoven : all of his symphonies are masterpieces, whereas Dvorak reached his highest level only with his last ones.

 

I voted Beethoven, of course.

I really, really do not understand Dvorak. I hate to say this, but I find him incredibly boring.

 

With all the poetry, charm and glorious dynamics in Dvorak's music, characterizing it as boring is incomprehensible to me. But, subjective response certainly encompasses a broad range of feeling. :tiphat:

 

Dvorák is better than Beethoven so I voted for him. But Farrenc's symphonies are better than all if them.

 

Yup we all know that, and by the way what about Medtner?

 

Dvorak. "The New World" kicks "Joy to the World's" ***.

 

I voted for Dvorak for being on the losing side. He's got 6 votes now!!! This was a vote for the underdog. Although my above post from ages back stands (in contradiction to the non-alignment thing)...

 

Dvorak. Don't get me wrong; I like Beethoven and all, but I find his symphonies to be among his worst work. And I guess I have a special attachment to Dvorak's 9th, which is allegedly the first piece of music I ever heard when I was two days old. When I heard it in full for the first time since then (last year) something came over me, I did feel a genuine sense of belonging. I don't think I genuinely remember hearing it back in 1989, but there's definitely something else there.

 

DVORAK music is mature compared to beethoven.

 

^Dvorak's fifth is better than his ninth.

 

I haven't decided whether or not I like it better, but I get where you're coming from. Symphonies are far from my favorite genre of classical, but I listened to Dvorak's fifth for the first time Monday night, and I enjoyed it immensely, especially the first two movements.

 

Once again, I shall interpret "best" as "your personal favourite" because I don't care for comparing the unquantifiable.

As such, my favourite set is Dvorak by far. Dvorak's 7th is one of my favourite symphonies ever written.

 

No no no, the fifth. Anyway I thought you left.

 

I prefer Dvorak's set over most of the great composers symphonies but not Beethoven's. I'm afraid it's a thread with a predictable and inevitable result.

 

Dvorak is my favourite composer. But Im still gonna have to vote for Beethoven.

 

OMFG, why?

 

Dvorak composed my favorite symphonies, every movement from his 9th is amazing. the 1st and 3rd movements from his 8th are great as well. His finale to that symphony is pretty good too, though the second movement isn't very interesting to me. His 7th symphony has some good moments, and his 5th's finale is incredibly inventive. The problem I have with Beethoven's symphonies is that the guy doesn't know when to stop in some instances. Some movements just go on and on. I like some movements from various symphonies by him, but I feel they just don't equal up to Dvorak.

 

I tried, but it's impossible for me to type anything else. Mahler.

 

Heh, heh- good one.

The Mahler cycle is a closer match for the Beethoven symphonies that Dvořák's set.

Yup, even though Dvořák might be my choice for greatest composer whose native language wasn't German or Russian...

 

I dunno, I am more into Dvorak's symphonic poems, though I've only heard his 8th and 9th symphonies. So, I voted for Beethoven.

 

I dont vote.. Both composers are bether with chamber, and concertos. That is my oppinion now, But I have a lot to discover.

 

Dvorak is clearly a skillful composer but I don't really like his spirit and temper. Decisive victory for Beethoven.

 

I change my vote to either Farrenc or Schnittke.

 

I voted for Dvorak for being on the losing side. He's got 6 votes now!!! This was a vote for the underdog. Although my above post from ages back stands (in contradiction to the non-alignment thing)...

Sid... have you ever come to think that maybe you base some of your opinions far too much on external, non-musical considerations? I mean I suspect many of your "dislikes" seem more about voting for the "underdog" or against "undefeated champions" than they are about music. Think Bach, Wagner, Karajan... and now Beethoven. In spite of your frequent championing of Beethoven as the composer who broke away from the conventions of music composed as mere entertainment for the ruling classes, here you vote for Dvorak simply to add some votes in favor of the underdog? And then you gived miffed at me whenever I play the "devil's advocate?:lol:

Seriously, I agree with your general disdain for these comparisons. Criticism, if it is to be of any merit, is something more than a generalized statement as to how this artist or art work is better or worse than another. I do wish there were more critical discussion of given works. I think there is a decent amount on the "Current Listening" thread... although many just post a picture without the least comment. There are also decent comments of the thread that I started some time back with the intention of introducing new music. Perhaps we should introduce a couple works a week a delve a bit deeper into them?

 

There are also decent comments of the thread that I started some time back with the intention of introducing new music. Perhaps we should introduce a couple works a week a delve a bit deeper into them?

I made a thread like that a while back.

 

Beethoven's symphonies are on another level from Dvorak's, except that Dvorak's melodic writing is better overall.

 

Beethoven's symphonies are on another level from Dvorak's.

Why? . . . . . . . . . . .

 

A bit of an unjust comparison, I think for someone who loves both. Dvorak's ninth was one which made me sit up and listen to classical. It was , I remember the Fricssay recording. Then one day I listened to the Pastoral(Muti-Philadelphia) and I became the devotee of Big B. All I can say today is that Dvorak sometimes manages to pull me out of the B obsession.
Anshuman

 

Dvorak ,I feel, lovingly dwells on melancholy. Beethoven struggles against it as it threatens to engulf him. Pardon the Idle thoughts of an idle fellow.

 

I believe your points to be well-taken, especially when we remember that Beethoven had to constantly struggle with the added burden of his deafness, which had already and forever "engulfed" him, as you so eloquently put it.

 

Listened today to the Karajan recording of Dvorak ninth.The crescendo at the end of the first movement sounds like a scream. Spoils my understanding of the composer built by other great performances(Kubelik,Fricssay,Talich). Karajan seems to trying to make Dvorak sound unnecessarily grand. Dvorak in my view should not sound like Wagner or even Beethoven.

 

I love Dvorak, but Beethoven at his best (and the Ninth is an example) evoked a higher consciousness that few artists ever come near. It may be cliche to say so, but Beethoven's symphonies are among the greatest artistic achievements of the human psyche.

Ken

 

I love Dvorak, but Beethoven at his best (and the Ninth is an example) evoked a higher consciousness that few artists ever come near. It may be cliche to say so, but Beethoven's symphonies are among the greatest artistic achievements of the human psyche.

Prove it, please.

 

I'm listening to Rondo Alla Turca while reading this argument.