People sometimes hate what they don`t understand...

Everywhere I go in my home town or around school it's all rock, metal, rap, country, those sorts of things. When I say I like classical to anybody they all give me strange looks, act like i'm retarded, then say classical is retard music because there aren't any lyrics.

If anything, I would say the contrary is true; those styles mentioned are easily accessible, with drums pounding the beat, etc. To understand the subtleties of classical music, one needs a certain amount of intelligence...

Having said that, I admit to liking rock music as well as classical. And some jazz.

 

Still, I could do without the, and I quote: "Your music is retarded man. It isn't even real music since there ain't any words". Classical Music has a passion, and a depth that they cannot understand and it pains and saddens me that they cannot understand it, so they hate it.

 

Yeah, but you should see what they say about genres other than classical at this forum. People are always quick to judge what they don't understand. Always easier to condemn something than to admit that you 'don't get it' or that despite the fact that it may not be for you it might be of value to others. But like I said, I wouldn't single out the attitude of pop/rock/whatever fans towards classical music when it comes to that, vica versa I see the same thing.

 

That`s ridiculous. Instrumental music is music in it`s purist form...even rock music has instrumentals...

Keep in mind that young folks often enjoy listening to the latest music. Classical music is sometimes old (depending on the work), so it`s probably not cool for that reason, in their eyes.

Have you discussed The Lord of the Rings music with them, or other classical-type film music? Sometimes that crosses the boundaries of acceptable coolness... if not, never mind; I`m sure you`ll meet plenty of ppl in your lifetime who enjoy classical music as much as you...right here, for example!

 

Let me say this: if bulls can talk, they must think it retarded for humans to say that the world is colorful. Because the bulls only distinguish 5 colors.
But will you be upset if you are appreciating a wonderful portrait while a bull shows no interest?

 

This is the same for me, too. My only refuge is those few (I only know about 3) and this forum. That's the reason why I joined.

 

it's all music and i don't think people hate classical music... they like it really

I say it's more to do with the cocky, arrogant, self-centered musicians that are out there today, who think that they are the best, only the best. Alienating classical "newbs" and discouraging amateurs.

Like me for example

 

Allegro, do you play a musical instrument? You could always consider joining a music group at school, or in your community...

 

I've listened to classic music off and on for a few years, and know very little about it. So I guess I can look at both sides.

One of the main reasons is that people are just not exposed to clasic music. You have to go out an find it to listen to it. Yes, theres snippets on tv programs or the odd radio program, but nothing concrete. I would also say that sometimes (certainly at my school) we were forced to listen to classical music and as a result, rebeled against it.

Now (in my very late thirties) I'm begining to appreciate it.

 

Allegro, do you play a musical instrument? You could always consider joining a music group at school, or in your community...

I can play piano, not masterfully but I can hold my own.

 

Sorry about earlier my earlier post...errrr....I was more than a little worse for wear..*hic*

 

Most people--even a lot of otherwise intelligent people--have had their ears and minds corrupted by the musical vernacular that bombards them everywhere they go. If music has no backbeat or amplification, they can't handle it.

 

I don't think people hate classical music, I just don't think they give it alot of thought. It seems to me that we are taught that classical music is boring or difficult. My girlfriend refuses to listen to it (thank God for my ipod), as finds it boring.

There are alot of causes for this; the media portray it as elitist, schools (here the UK at least) barely teach anything about it and people don't want to spend the time trying to listen.

 

Just because people have ears it doesn't mean they can hear. They hate it because they're not really listening. To suggest something like Beethoven's 9th is boring can surely not just be a an error of bad judgement? No. I think the selection of over played, commercialised "classical" music that is available to those who claim to hate it, is to blame for this. Have you ever heard someone describing Dvorak's New World Symphony as "Hovis"? *giggles* There is a depth to the purely instrumental that is expressed in such a way that I often find people holding a presumption that because it has no lyrics it is "snobby". This is very frustrating, as if appreciating what I consider to be the worlds most beautiful art form makes you a snob then I really think this culture has gone wrong. As for the lack of lyrics, some of my favourite composers are purely choral. I duno whether anyone likes Thomas Weelkes, but he's a totally kick-*** composer. One of my all time favourite pieces is "When to the Temple Mary Went" by Johannes Eccard. Something so deeply moving, with such sweetness of melody and gentle fluctuations can only be described as pure bliss...

 

I think the concern about the media press representing Classical as elite is far less of a concern than the media advertisers who make it difficult for neophytes to consume Beethoven's 9th without having images of overpaid professional sportsman polluting their mind!

In a sense, especially compared with populist music, Classical is elite...but so what? That isn't the same thing as saying, Classical is restricted to elites or whatever.

From my experience, people just can't relate to the depth and(/of) structure in most Classical music, and cannot digest it holistically. It's like me reading a book in French (I'm English!). I'll understand a couple of words and phrases, but not the entire narrative.

That's why, in a lot of Rap and mainstream Metal music I've listened to, where they try to implement Classical styling, it sounds ridiculous. On these Classical music video channels, the only thing remotely 'Classical' about the songs is the instrumentation. It's really pop music.

Also, I recall hearing a rap song with a Schubert-esque violin phrase, but it was totally isolated and repeated in that tedious verse-chorus format that makes me nauseous!

But that leads me to the sociological explanation. These people think in terms of parts, and not a whole. That is one pillar our modern culture. They took some part of a Classical work, and made it the whole. You take your measly individual life, and you make it the whole reality.

If it's noble, it ain't easy or whatever. That's just life, and art.

 

I agree to the previous posts that it takes a person who is somewhat intelligent and has an eye for subtlety to enjoy Classical music. Many times I feel that Classical music is the best way to convey pure emotion, pieces can rouse patriotism or drown you in tears...not too many other forms of music can do that

SchubertObsessive>>> are you a Therion fan?? Metal with classical undertones is awesome

 

I don't agree with the point made about instrumental music being 'purer', and it's definitely not a statement that can be applied across all genres.

Lyrics often become equivalent to notes produced by our vocal instrument, and the fact that these lyrics have relevance to the music simply becomes a matter of convinience for the artist if they want to aid the listener in understanding the ideas of the piece.

But presumably, this point can only apply to honest art.

 

One of the various reasons for this is that people today do not listen to music & appreciate it, they simply hear it. One must have enough intellect & imagination to appreciate the finer music. Some music exists simply for the sake of existing, whilst some pieces tell a definite story (Vivaldy's four Seasons for example). One must be able to hear how the music represents these things, or one can simply let the mind wander (to make of it what you will). The music of today corrupts these creative virtues. When we hear rap & hip hop, we hear a continous beat, which carries on throughout the song without a single change in the tune. This is what sets classical music aside, where one piece can have various tunes. When people cannot appriciate these, their opinion of audio entertainment may as weel be obsolete. The other main reason is that people feel that classical music is very outdated & not very good. The image obsessed cultures of modern society virtually have boundaries well outside of "real music" (despite theirony that classical music inspired virtually all other forms of music from the tunes. Also that many classical tunes feature in songs written today- meaning that music only really exists because of it's predecessor).
As long as some people can appriciate it, classical music will never die out. It's too good

 

Ahh, take heart, there are always dedicated lovers of classical music!, right here in this forum!
many people these days prefer non-classical because there are lyrics...and usually lyrics tell a story. Other people simply listen to music for the beat to get them up and going, drive them wild (examples are latino rock/pop, or beyonce's crazy in love)...
However, classical music is very "cultural", has been around for a long time, and has always had and always will have a large portion of people as dedicated followers =)
look at all those people who learn instruments (instruments not including things like guitars...) classical music lives on

 

Classical music takes effort and patience to listen to. Most people don't like to think of music listening as a skill to be developed. They percieve music only as an entertainment, and if it does not bring instant gratification, they become bored and turn it off. People need to see music as more than entertainment. It's an experience that not only sooths and excites, but also educates and enlightens. People should try to get out of their musical comfort zones and listen to music that makes them think.

 

That's my exact thought, very well said.

 

I think that classical music stands in direct opposition to modern life (mainly in the city) i.e. walking through busy streets, being bombarded with ads and loud cars, plus the rowdy background music in cafes, etc. And then there is the cinema - this experience is enough to overwhelm anyone's senses.

To then sit down and listen to Bach, for example...

Also, I feel that the emotions expressed in classical music are in general more lofty and refined than those found in popular music. In my own country we are not taught to appreciate this, so most people live on in ignorance (and spiteful judgement follows). After all, not many would search for something higher, when basically all desires are catered for. The only thing to come out of all this affluence is more and more consumerism, rather than more time to pause and reflect on the beauty of life (etc), such as is expressed in classical music.

Sorry for the vagueness - hopefully others can still follow what I'm trying to say.

 

Classical music in modern societies is reduced to romantic or bassy string music in movies or as a catchy gingle in a commercial. It is my oppinion that everyone could thoroughly enjoy classical music but it takes a brake from typical society norms being feed to us by the 'Capitalist Giant'. I actually believe that to become a classical fan is more of a humbling experience then anything else, not only because of the tender sentiments it can express, but because of the horrible disconnects you will find in a world obssesed with instant gratifications and material worship.

 

Great ideas linz....

 

I know this is an "old" thread but I'm somewhat new to the boards, so I thought I'd comment. I have been interested in classical music since elementary school when I decided I wanted to join the orchestra. Being in the orchestra was never a popular thing, but I loved it, and I think it contributed so much to who I am today. That said, now I am in college (as an "older" student) and taking a music appreciation class and I find it sad how little interest most the students take in the class. They don't take it seriously, talking or laughing during the class, and not realizing how much our teacher really knows about music, and I think he actually knows about many, many genres, not just the classical that we are mostly being taught. I love the stories, background, and history of it all, as well as being introduced to many pieces and composers I did not really know. Some of it I like, some I don't, but it amazes me to hear how music progressed and changed, as with most MA classes, we started with the Gregorian chants and are now in the early 1900's, so there is a huge progression there. What I find really humorous though, is that many of the other students thought this was an easy class and they could just show up when they wanted, when they quickly learned that knowing the material is definitely a must in order to pass. It is encouraging though that some of the students that were less than interested in the beginning seem to be finding that the music isn't as "boring" as they thought, and that they don't hate it. Not many, but there are some, which I think is great. I actually listen to many types of music, and try not to dismiss music out of hand just because it doesn't appeal to me. I think that is what many young people do partly because it isn't "cool" to listen to, but when you expand your world outside of what is cool it is amazing to find what is out there and what you might really like. there has to be some sort of value to any music, though I admit sometimes I can't find it in some of the more popular music of today.

Sorry, I guess I went on a bit there.

Kay

 

Very astute and somehow depressing observations there, mekaykey. I remember when I took a music appreciation class (after I was already a classical music nut) and I can recall similar experiences. The only difference is that the teacher was 80% to blame for the negative responses and poor impressions of the students. Many students had a hard time even caring about music that didn't have a monotonous beat or the F word sung in every line. Many students also wanted visuals because they are so used to MTV giving them an entertaining and vibrant "music video" to go along with their music. I don't pretend to be at some "higher" strata of society, but I must say they made me lose my faith in the youth of our country (and I'm a youngin myself). You're right that it's just not "cool" to like Mozart or Bach, music that only "old people" listen to. I risked being "ostracized" by my peers in the classroom by bringing in some old LPs for the teacher who collected them. I can't stand LPs, so I gave him some Wagner, Handel and Tchaikovsky that my mother was going to throw out. Some of the students then snickered and made jokes that the teacher was such a loser that he would probably spend the rest of his night listening to them on an old player.

Unfortunately, the teacher didn't help any. He was foolish and out of touch. At the time of being in the class, I was only listening to classical music for about a year... I knew what it was like to only understand rock music and rap (I even listened to some before converting completely over to classical). This teacher decided to bust out Mahler's 6th, Wagner's Prelude to "Tristan und Isolde," one of the late Beethoven string quartets, Brahms's Violin Concerto and Schubert's "Death and the Maiden" string quartet. INSANE choices, especially for students like this who had the attention span of a gnat. He even played Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring" for Gods sake... before he even gave them a taste of Mozart. It was sad to see everyone fall asleep or look pained by the music which must have been completely incomprehensible, foreign, and totally alien to their ears.

Despite the teacher's almost "elitist" tastes, he and I became somewhat like friends (as much as the student-teacher relationship allows) and we exchanged items. I gave him some burned CDs of rare piano works and he gave me one of his old books he used to study. His problem was that he failed to reach anyone with his moderately inaccessible choices of works. He failed to revive any "music appreciation" within the students by his asinine selections of Mahler and obscure works from Haydn. His Bach choices were the best: the Dorian toccata and fugue and half of the Goldberg Variations. Most responded positively; they had never heard anything like that before. But the teacher lost them when he decided to throw in Stravinsky's Rite of Spring. Fortunately, no one rioted or threw chairs and books around in the class room... they were nodding off instead...

 

Hexameron, funny about the choices you mentioned. We have listened to Mahler, and Wagner's "Tristan and Isolde", and just the other day "Rite of Spring". But all three of those came after hearing Mozart, and he didn't play the whole pieces, just some to demonstrate some of the points he was making in lectures. I can't blame the teacher, because those composers are on the cd's that came with the book, so he is apparently following the set curriculum as far some composer choices, but gives us other works besides what is on the cds, like Tristan and Isolde, which wasn't the piece by Wagner on the cd (it was Die Walkure). I do think that he tries to give us tastes of all the periods and now that we are in the 1900's, he's hitting all the styles, including those atonal composers (Shoenberg, Berg, etc.) even though they are not all included on our required listening. We listened to the very odd Wozzech last week as well. He does try to connect the music to more modern things, as he apparently likes movies and can name several fairly new (though sometimes they are from the early 90s) that the pieces were used in, trying to at least find something the students might know.

Kay

 

I think the nail has been hit on the head in the last few posts, namely that many music appreciation teachers in schools often select the wrong material to present to children or older students starting out on classical music education.

I remember my first encounter at school when the music teacher put on a piece of Mozart, details of which I now forget. He himself went into a semi-trance, waving his arm around in conductor fashion, oblivious to the fact that the class was bored stiff and couldn't wait for it to end. And so it went on for a year. At the end of it, I felt even more disillusioned with classical music than at the beginning, as did most others.

A better method might have been to play a quick selection of pieces across the era/genre divide, and ask the students to vote on what they liked and disliked (scores 1 to 10), in order to keep them interested and focused. Then ask the group to discuss it among themselves and come back with the best unified view they could reach on a ranking. The next step would be to home in on whatever type it was that they enjoyed most. For example, if the most popular was, say, solo piano the next step would be to arrange another vote on a more focused set of pieces among the main composers of such work, in order to show the different styles. Then organise a further sub-vote.

It's basically a question of finding a good starting point on the ladder, as selected by the students themselves. If the group know it's their collective choice that's being investigated, they might "own" it more instead of feeling alienated from it.

After this, a start could be made on the second rung, etc. After a few months of this, I reckon it would produce more budding enthusiasts than the more traditional methods, of the type that I experienced.

Just a thought.



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