[Steve Stalin]

... but struggle under capitalist systems ?

 

[TwoFlutesOneTrumpet]

I think your premise might be a little flawed. Classical music thrives in countries steeped in rich classical music tradition, such as Germany, Austria, Netherlands, Finland. What data did you use to reach your conclusion?

 

[Xisten267]

But they don't. There are countries that were socialist in the past and that in my opinion do not have expressive composers in CM (example: Cuba) and modern capitalist countries that have their share of great composers (example: America, England, etc.).

 

[Steve Stalin]

You list a small island such as Cuba as a failire, yet ignore The Soviet Union and its block of friendly communist countries such as Czechoslovakia, Poland and Hungary.... yet you claim America as a success.... WHO?.. WHO in America has produced anything other than mass market capitalist lite consumption for the masses... film music and nonsense...???

 

[Xisten267]

You list a small island such as Cuba as a failire, yet ignore The Soviet Union and its block of friendly communist countries such as Czechoslovakia, Poland and Hungary.... yet you claim America as a success.... WHO?.. WHO in America has produced anything other than mass market capitalist lite consumption for the masses... film music and nonsense...???

I acknowledge people like Ives, Copland, Joplin, Partch, Bernstein, Gershwin and Barber, to cite just a few, as great classical composers of America.

 

[EdwardBast]

If you bothered to make a case for your position you'd be more likely to get serious responses. The assertion as it stands is vague and silly.

 

[hammeredklavier]

You list a small island such as Cuba as a failire, yet ignore The Soviet Union and its block of friendly communist countries such as Czechoslovakia, Poland and Hungary.... yet you claim America as a success.... WHO?.. WHO in America has produced anything other than mass market capitalist lite consumption for the masses... film music and nonsense...???

Hello, Mr. John Lenin

 

[starthrower]

Hello, Mr. John Lenin

Will he attempt another comeback as Trotsky?

 

[Aries]

Good question.

The easy answer is that Stalin stipulated socialist realism. But maybe that is too easy. It is possible that the taste of the people in the east is more classical than in the west.

I agree that classical music in classical form thrived more in the socialist east than the capitalist west, but it seems unlikely that capitalism itself is the problem because the west has produced very capitalist products that include classical music (best example: movies with John Williams music). Modernism, uprooting and the cut off of traditions in the west seems to be the problem.

 

[MarkW]

An unsupported (and probably untrue) generalization.

 

[ArtMusic]

Because socialist systems are totalitarian systems with central planning that determine what type of arts thrive. It can be good if they plan well.

 

[ORigel]

You list a small island such as Cuba as a failire, yet ignore The Soviet Union and its block of friendly communist countries such as Czechoslovakia, Poland and Hungary.... yet you claim America as a success.... WHO?.. WHO in America has produced anything other than mass market capitalist lite consumption for the masses... film music and nonsense...???

Capitalist America has had a lot of great or good composers: Ives, Copland, Gerswin, Barber, Bernstein...

And sone great composers fled war-torn Europe for America, including Bartok, Stravinsky, and Schoenberg.

 

[Merl]

It seems Mr. Stalin has encountered the ban hammer. Bahahaha! Who next? Bernard Brezhnev? Bobby Kruschev? Putin on the Ritz?

 

[Knorf]

I'm hoping for a shift to a different communist nation, and we'll be treated to one Mao Ze Doug.

 

[starthrower]

Because socialist systems are totalitarian systems with central planning that determine what type of arts thrive. It can be good if they plan well.

Those two systems are not synonymous. I'm not sure that the arts are flourishing in N. Korea, but it's quite different in Finland.

 

[ArtMusic]

Those two systems are not synonymous. I'm not sure that the arts are flourishing in N. Korea, but it's quite different in Finland.

I had the Soviet Union and eastern European nations in mind.

 

[starthrower]

I had the Soviet Union and eastern European nations in mind.

But you wrote "socialist systems are totalitarian systems." Can unfettered free expression and art really flourish in a totalitarian system? The arts are subject to government censorship.

 

[Aries]

But you wrote "socialist systems are totalitarian systems." Can unfettered free expression and art really flourish in a totalitarian system? The arts are subject to government censorship.

Obviously yes. Shostakovichs 7th symphony is great for example. And he was forced into the socialist realist direction before. But I can't see where it hurt. The results are good. The compositions of the eastern bloc are a gold mine while nonsense like serialism developed in the free west.

 

[ArtMusic]

But you wrote "socialist systems are totalitarian systems." Can unfettered free expression and art really flourish in a totalitarian system? The arts are subject to government censorship.

Yes, there is censorship or rather selective approval that promoted the old masters.

 

[starthrower]

Obviously yes. Shostakovichs 7th symphony is great for example. And he was forced into the socialist realist direction before. But I can't see where it hurt. The results are good. The compositions of the eastern bloc are a gold mine while nonsense like serialism developed in the free west.

Shostakovich was a miracle under such an oppressive regime but to say that the arts flourish under such circumstances is a stretch. The poor guy was a wreck most of his life. Calling serial music nonsense is nonsense.