[Knorf]

Obviously yes. Shostakovichs 7th symphony is great for example. And he was forced into the socialist realist direction before. But I can't see where it hurt. The results are good. The compositions of the eastern bloc are a gold mine while nonsense like serialism developed in the free west.

"Nonsense" like "serialism"?

 

[Ariasexta]

Capitalism converges with communism upon the common interest of trading for maximum profit. Communism is an indispensible mechanism of the profit maximization for the capitalists. Of course as the confluence of the two systems increases, both betray their own people and induces deterioration of their own respective adoptive countries. Capitalism is on the upper command to the communism so capitalist society will be the first to show the symptoms of social deterioration, but the worst will always be reserved for the communist countries and be ignored by the world. The relative social and humantarian advancements in communist countries are temporary and a false hope for long term deception, under the disguise of relative temporary improvements against the capitalist countries, people will be steadily and readily led to a system dictated by manufactured lies corroborated by all designed counterparts in political and economical competitions across cultures and countries.

Socialist arts are at best the poverty porn for the upper class capitalists, for the taste of exotiqueness and their show of hypocritical intellectual gloss, most socialist arts are downrght worthless without capitalist corroboration in commercial propagandas in false values. Socialism and communism are downright garbages, no excuses for art or science can make up for its inherent inferiority, period.

The true art can only be created by the universalization of the ideals, by denying the humanity as the center of all things, ideals of God can be shared by people, and harmonious relations with nature, God, angels can be established. The art is the manifest of this prevailing harmony.

Catholicism was originally a body of unification of the belief systems shared by all western different cultures: greeks, romans, nordics, gauls, mediterraneans, arabs, spanishes, celts, teutonics, slavics, egyptians. Vatican has been the true locomotive of the western arts and fuelling the creativity of the western world.

Universalization is the true source of human art and momentum of advancements, whereas elitism will only lead to degeneration and deterioration of all thing.

 

[ArtMusic]

Capitalism converges with communism upon the common interest of trading for maximum profit. Communism is an indispensible mechanism of the profit maximization for the capitalists. Of course as the confluence of the two systems increases, both betray their own people and induces deterioration of their own respective adoptive countries. Capitalism is on the upper command to the communism so capitalist society will be the first to show the symptoms of social deterioration, but the worst will always be reserved for the communist countries and be ignored by the world. The relative social and humantarian advancements in communist countries are temporary and a false hope for long term deception, under the disguise of relative temporary improvements against the capitalist countries, people will be steadily and readily led to a system dictated by manufactured lies corroborated by all designed counterparts in political and economical competitions across cultures and countries.

Socialist arts are at best the poverty porn for the upper class capitalists, for the taste of exotiqueness and their show of hypocritical intellectual gloss, most socialist arts are downrght worthless without capitalist corroboration in commercial propagandas in false values. Socialism and communism are downright garbages, no excuses for art or science can make up for its inherent inferiority, period.

The true art can only be created by the universalization of the ideals, by denying the humanity as the center of all things, ideals of God can be shared by people, and harmonious relations with nature, God, angels can be established. The art is the manifest of this prevailing harmony.

Catholicism was originally a body of unification of the belief systems shared by all western different cultures: greeks, romans, nordics, gauls, mediterraneans, arabs, spanishes, celts, teutonics, slavics, egyptians. Vatican has been the true locomotive of the western arts and fuelling the creativity of the western world.

Universalization is the true source of human art and momentum of advancements, whereas elitism will only lead to degeneration and deterioration of all thing.

So you are basically saying the world should be catholic, and the world's arts and everything else will be better.

 

[Ariasexta]

So you are basically saying the world should be catholic, and the world's arts and everything else will be better.

Quite, I am convinced the catholic church has the key to human historical truth though not the future. To my understanding of our current scientific advancements, everything in there is done to shape our future, not even predicting. I mean, if you can creat a future, you are a prophet by self-appointment. That is the point, the Quantum physics shows some people are trying to shape the future. The problem is that most people have no idea how possible it can be and people will get deeply involved without knowing it. UFO and other alternative disclosure movements sound a serious alert for people.

The Vatican thing is also serious as it lays the foundation to all human reconnaissances of our world, their secret libraries, teachings hold important keys to our past which we should share among all people in all possible ways: religious, political, scientifical, economical, philosophical, artistical ways. This is the universalization that will creat the best arts and inspire humanity in all kinds of creative activity which will profoundly enrich our mind and wisdom. I believe, by creating the best artistical, scientifical, economical common goods, we can share all the key secrets we need, then we can shape our better future.

The Vatican holds the past, we as people holds the present, and by sharing the wisdom, we shape the better future. This is how I see the whole spacio-temporal destiny of humanity. In short: The Vatican must serve the people, not the elites.

 

[ArtMusic]

^If only that can done in the real world. It's ideal but impossible to achieve.

 

[Ariasexta]

^If only that can done in the real world. It's ideal but impossible to achieve.

We are commanded by the Bible to share the secrets, if not immediately and directly, it should be done in all viable ways. I think, one of our highest goals in creating any common benefits is to prepare people for accepting the universal truth. Why we pursue after wealth? Adam Smith says we do it for the greater good, so what is this greater good after all? He never elaborated his greater good t obe achieved through the wealth of nations. Here we are, for the sharing of the revelations which is due. It must be done.

Luke 8:17 - For all that is secret will eventually be brought into the open, and everything that is concealed will be brought to light and made known to all.

 

[Andrew Kenneth]

(...)Why we pursue after wealth? Adam Smith says we do it for the greater good, so what is this greater good after all? He never elaborated his greater good t obe achieved through the wealth of nations.(...).

(from Mandeville's wiki page) =>

Bernard Mandeville (1670-1733) concluded that vice, at variance with the "Christian virtues" of his time, was a necessary condition for economic prosperity. His viewpoint is more severe when juxtaposed to Adam Smith's. Both Smith and Mandeville believed that individuals' collective actions bring about a public benefit. However, what sets his philosophy apart from Smith's is his catalyst to that public benefit. Smith believed in a virtuous self-interest which results in invisible co-operation. For the most part, Smith saw no need for a guide to garner that public benefit. On the other hand, Mandeville believed it was vicious greed which led to invisible co-operation if properly channelled. Mandeville's qualification of proper channelling further parts his philosophy from Smith's laissez-faire attitude. Essentially, Mandeville called for politicians to ensure that the passions of man would result in a public benefit. It was his stated belief in the Fable of the Bees that "Private Vices by the dextrous Management of a skilful Politician may be turned into Publick Benefits".

In the Fable he shows a society possessed of all the virtues "blest with content and honesty," falling into apathy and utterly paralysed. The absence of self-love is the death of progress. The so-called higher virtues are mere hypocrisy, and arise from the selfish desire to be superior to the brutes. "The moral virtues are the political offspring which flattery begot upon pride." Similarly he arrives at the great paradox that "private vices are public benefits".

Among other things, Mandeville argues that the basest and vilest behaviours produce positive economic effects. A libertine, for example, is a vicious character, and yet his spending will employ tailors, servants, perfumers, cooks, prostitutes. These persons, in turn, will employ bakers, carpenters, and the like. Therefore, the rapaciousness and violence of the base passions of the libertine benefit society in general.

 

[mparta]

🤮

Back to music

 

[Zhdanov]

Socialism and communism are downright garbages, no excuses for art or science can make up for its inherent inferiority,

but why not? Capitalism does try find excuses, and the others may not?

The Vatican must serve the people,

it did serve the Soviet people, helped them obtain things elitarian, this got destroyed.

 

[Art Rock]

This thread has turned into a discussion on religion and politics with little or no connection to music - perhaps not surprisingly given the topic. I'm closing it.