His music is great, got 2 complete cycles of his symphonies, numbers 4 and 5 are the best known. My firm belief is when you get into a great work like either of those, comparisons with any of the other great works of any Great Masters become superfluous, and is impossible. I believe Beethoven's masterpieces come from a self-consciously self-important angle, and is usually taken as such, as long as it meets or exceeds the listener's expectations. But taking away the context of historical and self-importance, many works become on equal footing.

I don't see any reason why anyone can't say the Inextinguishable Symphony (which sort of has its own self-important angle) is not any less than Beethoven's Ninth or Brahms' 4th, outside of historical context and herd-mentality.

 

I did a search to see if other threads have been started about this composer but I couldn't find any. I just wanted to say I have been getting into Nielsen's symphonies and they are incredible, dare I say they are on par with with the the works other famous Nordic composers like Grieg and Sibelius, or better (ducks for cover).

I'd defend you if you say that, but I might be the only one! :lol: I'd probably rank the Nordic Big 3 with Nielsen first, Grieg second, and Sibelius 3rd. I'm sure most people would go with the inverse though. Anyway, Nielsen is quite unique and I find his style to be quite interesting. I don't find Symphony No. 2 to be all that interesting, but I like the others. I like his VC and his Aladdin Suite is very enjoyable in a similar way to Peer Gynt. The Esa-Pekka Salonen Conducts Nielsen bargain boxset from Sony that came out last year (be sure not to get the older, more expensive one called "Salonen Conducts Nielsen") is a good way to get a lot of Nielsen (6 CDs) for around $20.

 

Do check out his concertos (violin, clarinet, flute) as well!

 

Yes, I will be getting his concertos as soon as I have absorbed his symphonies. But they are something else, all these these years and I've never even given him the time of day. That is the beauty of classical music, it just never ruddy ends!

 

Great that you are enjoying Nielsen. For the sake of exploration, Bentzon, Holmboe, Rangström, Rautavaara, and Langgaard are also major Nordic symphonists.

 

Kurt Atterberg is someone worth checking out too.

 

... and Alfven and Louis Glass and Sallinen and ......

it indeed never ends....

 

*Sigh*... and don't forget Nørgård either...

 

And then we have the string quartets, "the Young Danish string quartet" on label Dacapo is playing
them roughly and with heavy spirit.

 

... is as good as Bruckner and Mahler, and perhaps Tchaikovsky...

I respectfully disagree. Yes, his symphonies are really good, but not in the same league as Mahler's or Tchaikovsky's or Bruckner's best ones (7, 8, 9).

 

I respectfully disagree. Yes, his symphonies are really good, but not in the same league as Mahler's or Tchaikovsky's or Bruckner's best ones (7, 8, 9).

I'll take this to mean that Tchaikovsky's best symphonies are non-existent, and I wouldn't disagree. :lol:

 

Nielsen is great, particularly his 1st symphony. I'm not sure I could consider him as better than Sibelius but he's certainly not far behind.

 

I hate Nielsen. I have tried many times to like his symphonies, but there is no composer who bores me more. Yes! Even more than Schubert and Liszt.

 

It's the snare drum that put you to sleep, yes?

 

Carl NIELSEN: Wind Quintet, Op. 43 (1922)

Along with the 4th and 5th symphonies, the Wind Quintet is my favorite Nielsen work, primarily for the great Praeludium & Tema con variazioni final movement, which is a set of character variations on a hymn tune. (More often than not, I skip the first two movements and go straight to the final movement.) The work was written for the Royal Chapel Wind Quintet, whose members Nielsen was quite friendly with, and the variations are meant to reflect both the character of the instruments and of the corresponding players of the Royal Chapel Wind Quintet. Nielsen was so happy with the group's playing of the work that he resolved to write a concerto for each member. Unfortunately, he only managed to complete the ones for flute and for clarinet. The group also made the premiere recording of the work, in 1936, with four of the five original members; it's an excellent performance in surprisingly good sound and is available on the Clarinet Classics and the Danacord labels-the former being the preferable transfer to my ears, as the latter sounds over-filtered/-processed. A private transfer of the recording is on YouTube:

As good as that account is, however, I can't recommend it above the early '60s account by the New York Woodwind Quintet available on a Concert-Disc/Boston Skyline CD. It would be hard to imagine a performance with better rapport and coordination among the players. The Royal Chapel Wind Quintet account boasts more boldly characterized (but not necessarily better characterized) individual contributions, but the ensemble playing, good though it is, isn't on a par with that of the NYWwQ. The New Yorkers aren't hurting for character, in any event, and their characterization of the final movement's variations is dead-on; they're particularly good at bringing out the almost mediaeval quality/atmosphere of some of the variations. Also worthy of note is the general "sound" that the NYWwQ produces, individually and corporately: more plaintive and dry, less bright and fruity than other wind ensembles; this is partly due to the early '60s recorded sound, which though clean, detailed, and well balanced, is a tad dry and slightly lacking in bloom-enhancing atmosphere.

For something light and gently humorous, you might investigate Nielsen's Serenata in vano (1914), for clarinet, bassoon, horn, cello & double bass (which is a coupling for the Wind Quintet on both the Clarinet Classics and the Danacord releases mentioned above). "Serenata in vano is a humorous trifle," the composer wrote. "First the gentlemen play in a somewhat chivalric and showy manner to lure the fair one out onto the balcony, but she does not appear. Then they play in a slightly languorous strain (Poco adagio), but that hasn't any effect either. Since they have played in vain (in vano), they don't care a straw and shuffle off home to the strains of the little final march, which they play for their own amusement." There's a fine recording from 1937 that features three members of the Royal Chapel Wind Quintet, which can also be heard via a private transfer on YouTube:

 

Carl NIELSEN: Wind Quintet, Op. 43 (1922)
As good as that account is, however, I can't recommend it above the early '60s account by the New York Woodwind Quintet available on a Concert-Disc/Boston Skyline CD. It would be hard to imagine a performance with better rapport and coordination among the players.

Agreed - the NYWW 5tet was a really great group - Boston Skyline had issued most of their 5tet recordings, which are really benchmarks for me...don't know if they are still available. Their Nielsen 5tet recording is tops for me.

 

Do we always need to compare Sibelius and Nielsen just because they are both from Scandinavia? They are very different and both wonderful in their own way

 

I usually group Sibelius, Nielsen and Hanson together, as the "Scandinavian symphonists" - yes, Hanson was American, but of Nordic descent - he gets a similarly craggy, powerful sound, that is not unlike the Great Finn, and the Great Dane...

 

Fortunately , Nielsen's music os no longer obscure , and his highly individual works are being performed more than ever internationally , and there are more recordings than ever before, too .
In America, his music was almost totally unknown until the 1960s, when lLeonard Bernstein discovered it and began to champion and record his symphonies . Jean Martinon made his classic recording of the 4th for RCA with the Chicago symphony around this time , and Morton Gould recorded the second with the same orchestra . Ormandy and the Philadelphia recorded the first and sixth .
Bernstein and the great clarinetist Stanley Drucker of the NY Phil. recorded the clarinet concert, and Bernstein recorded the flute concerto with its then principal flutist Julius Baker .
Jascha Horentein made h is famous recording of the 5th with the New Philharmonia orchestra ,
and even Sir John Barbirolli recorded the fourth with the Halle orchestra .
Before Bernstein , none of the renowned music directors of the so-caled "Big Five" orchestras
had championed Nielsen . Koussevitzky, Toscanini, Reiner, Mitropolouos , Rodzinski . never performed his music and chances are , they barely knew of his existence .
Stokowski did not conduct Nielsen until long after being music director in Philadelphia .
Later , Blomstedt, Berglund, Neeme Jarvi , Myung Whun Chung , Sixten Ehrling , Karajan, Kubelik, Rattle , and other leading conductors made notable recordings of Nielsen's symphonies and other orchestral works .
Alan Gilbert , with the New York Philharmonic initiate the so-called "Nielsen Project ", performing and recording all six symphonies for a Danish record label plus the clarinet and flute concertos etc ., and this was received with considerable critical acclaim .
Even Nielsen's two operas "Saul and David " and "Maskarade " have been recorded in the digital era and Maskarade has even been prefer outside of Denmark and Scandinavia .
There was an earlier live recording of "Saul & David " from Copenhagen conducted by Horenstein " which has been available intermittently , and a more recent Digital one with Neeme Jarvi conducting on Chandos , which I have and recommend highly if you can find it .
There is a superb DVD from the Royal Danish opera in Copenhagen of "Maskarade " which you really must get if you love Nielsen , and CD recordings conducted by Ulf Schemer on Decca , and Michael Schonwandt on a Danish label which are both excellent .
The Minnesota opera in Minneapolis has done productions of both . Could a Met production be sometime in the future ? It's not impossible !

 

The 4th symphony is one of my all-time favourites, perfect from start to finish, it's steel and ice and snow and fire and Beethovenian willpower, but I haven't been able to expand my tastes on Nielsen much beyond that. Wonder what I should try...

 

If you want something that will give you a lot to work on, but is completely and utterly unique, try the 5th symphony. You may find that on a first complete listen, you'll be a bit baffled by aspects of the first movement but by the very end of the finale an odd satisfaction could arise. That's what happened for me, and in retrospect, the feeling couldn't exist without the first movement which I now love. It's like the instruments are having a conversation, and on the whole moves like a good conversation.

The 6th on the other hand, is dark and magical. Some people find it less accessible but I found it easier to jump into than the 5th, especially as someone who likes Prokofiev and Shostakovich.

The 3rd is the most romantic. You have a symphony of proportions worthy of the next generation of Brahms and Dvorak. The finale in particular has a great melody.

The 2nd and 1st have their charms for sure, the 1st being wonderfully concentrated in it's energy like a good 1st symphony is under good circumstances, the 2nd being sort of like a tone poem.

 

As someone who has recently gotten into Sibelius but developed a solid obsession with Nielsen two years ago, I feel them to be equals and very different. Sibelius is utterly organic and subtle, Nielsen is precise(especially from the 4th symphony on) and can be very forceful or very organic depending on the work/movement. They both can build into tremendously emotional passages. Sibelius perhaps a little more, but Nielsen has the virtue of being more harmonically and orchestrally modern.

 

My initial exposure to Nielsen was by a radio broadcast of Bernstein's recording of the 5th, and it hooked me immediately. I have since come to really enjoy the 3rd and 4th. The 1st and 2nd are nice but as with Sibelius' first two, are not the equal of the later works. The 6th is still somewhat of an enigma.

I can also recommend a number of Nielsen's shorter works such as Saga-Drøm, An Imaginary Trip to the Faroe Islands, and Helios Overture.

 

Pan og Syrinx is a delightfully weird tone poem too.

 

I don't know if this CD is still available, but if you can find the Chandos recording of three of Nielsen's choral works , Hymnis Amoris , Sleep and Springtime on Funen with Leif Segerstam and the Danish National orchestra and chorus , grab it .
Hymnis Amoris is in Latin and is a song of praise to love, not the sexual kind but more in the Greek sense of Agape .
"Sleep " is a weird choral piece about the experience of sleep , but it's not at all somnolent !
The text explores both the peaceful and restful benefits of sleep and the disturbing ones , such as nightmares . The central section is the depiction of a nightmare, with some truly weird harmonies .
"Springtime on Funen" is a charming folksy autobiographical cantata taken from Nielsen's childhood and youth growing up on the idyllic Danish island of Funen in the Danish archipelago . There are soloists in addition to the chorus , portraying the simple, idyllic life of Danish peasants .

 

I did a search to see if other threads have been started about this composer but I couldn't find any. I just wanted to say I have been getting into Nielsen's symphonies and they are incredible, dare I say they are on par with with the the works other famous Nordic composers like Grieg and Sibelius, or better (ducks for cover).

But why just compare him to other Scandinavian composers? He is seriously underrated and is as good as Bruckner and Mahler, and perhaps Tchaikovsky, but that would be pushing it!

So, just interested in other people's views of Nielsen.

Agreed. Additionally, his chamber works are outstanding, and equally underrated.

-09

 

Nielsen is quite underrated in general and definitely deserves to be more renown and critically exalted. His 5th Symphony is quite astonishing and probably his most remarkable work.

I wouldn't agree with some users that feel his symphonies are on the same level as Brahms and Beethoven's (or Mahler's) very best -- but they're not that far out of the picture either. In addition to their ability to elicit emotion(s) through music, Beethoven and Brahms were also masters at conveying multiple emotions in the same phrasing of melody/theme (Brahms with even more ambiguous, enigmatic combinations), and then expanding on this exponentially and creatively from innumerable angles/points-of-view. Beethoven's and Brahms' mastery of "cyclic form" (and their incredible creativity and compositional economy with this) makes them very difficult to surpass because it's not just the emotional/conceptual conveyance of their symphonies that are impressive, but also the "prismatic", "reverberating effect" that permeates throughout them, that keeps multiplying layers and layers of content into overwhelming depth (for Beethoven's symphonies, from the 5th forward in particular; for Brahms' 3rd and 4th in particular). Each theme/melody/motive (etc) takes on increasingly greater significance throughout, as from the beginning to the end they are being alluded to, echoed, altered, reflected upon and expanded before, during and after their main emergence in the works, into quotations of musical architecture, creating a "domino effect" of context and content. This makes the amount of emotional significance they can generate "per unit of time" quite substantial.

Typing hastily from my phone, so hope that makes sense.

Oh -- this thread is about Nielsen?

Oh yes, he is phenomenal btw

 

I can't see comparing Nielsen to late romantic German heavyweights. But I listen to his symphonies more than Brahms. Nielsen, Honegger, Martinu, and Bax are the post romantic symphonies I've been listening to the most. And Sibelius a couple times a year.

 

I have been listening to this Nielsen set lately. What stupendous sound. LSO is quickly becoming one of my favorite labels. Their online music store can't be beat for ease of use, and features hi-res for basically everything. Highly, highly recommended.

As far as the music goes, it is definitely in the Sibelius sort of vein, with a bit more of a "classical" feel. Very enjoyable. It will take me a few more listens to situate him among my other favorites, but he's certainly at least in the same ballpark as a Schumann or a Schubert in terms of overall "desire to listen to again."

 

I have been listening to this Nielsen set lately. What stupendous sound. LSO is quickly becoming one of my favorite labels. Their online music store can't be beat for ease of use, and features hi-res for basically everything. Highly, highly recommended.

As far as the music goes, it is definitely in the Sibelius sort of vein, with a bit more of a "classical" feel. Very enjoyable. It will take me a few more listens to situate him among my other favorites, but he's certainly at least in the same ballpark as a Schumann or a Schubert in terms of overall "desire to listen to again."

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When I was at my favorite local record store last, I saw and just barely passed up on a CD from the LSO Live label of Sir Colin Davis conducting Dvorak's 7th. Your high praise of the label has just convinced me to go back there and snag it up. And I've never even heard Dvorak's 7th. I think it was going for $2.

As for Nielsen, I picked up my first Nielsen CD the other day but have yet to listen, the Bernstein "Royal Edition" with Nielsen's 2nd and 4th. Soon, maybe even today actually.

 

I'm leaning toward the Blomstedt Nielsen box because it includes the six symphonies, his opera Maskarade, and the choral work, Hymnis Amoris. The LSO Live sets are cool but I don't have a SACD player to take advantage of the fidelity.

 

Some of the Davis LSO Live Nielsen's are very good. I remember when they came out being a bit surprised as Nielsen had not been a common choice for Davis. There are two sets that I like a little more than the others (I think I have heard them all) - both are with the Royal Stockholm Philharmonic:

The Oramo recordings do cover all six symphonies but are only available separately.