So another poll! Vote for what you consider your favorite/greatest romantic piano work. Once again, I am forced to limit it to 15 pieces... So if your favorite is something that is not on the list, please mention it in the thread!
Greatest Romantic Piano Works
Beebert
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They're all great and Op. 116 is a good choice. I think though I'd probably give a slight subjective edge to Op. 119.
Except for his Handel Variations, I could easily live out my life without solo Brahms. I give the nod to Schumann.
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Is it? I doubt it. Both of them have a few solo piano pieces that are quickly and easily grasped by a general audience (Intermezzo in A, Traumerei, etc.) but then the rest of their works are harder nuts to crack in comparison to Chopin's or Liszt's ouevre.
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I'm going to do a bit of a Brahms-Schumann comparison for solo piano since we're on this topic-and yes, I might be biased towards Schumann since he's my favorite composer so take this as an opinion and not a impartial analysis.
Sonatas: Schumann
I like the sonatas of both composers, even if they aren't as popular or well-regarded as other works such as the Liszt B Minor or Chopin Op.35. But for me, Schumann's sonatas connect more emotionally and seem to have more variety between them. Sometimes Brahms' sonatas sound almost immature compared to his other works.
Variation works: Brahms
For me, Schumann and Brahms are the two greatest Romantic era contributors to the Theme and Variation genre. However, I think Brahms takes the edge because he has a larger number of variation works I consider to be true artistic statements (variations on Handel, Paganini, and Schumann). Schumann only has one masterpiece in the genre (the Symphonic Etudes) while the other ones are either unfinished (the Beethoven variations) or lighter/immature (Abegg variations).
Miniatures: Brahms
This was a hard category to judge because it is difficult to distinguish between a Schumann work that might be labelled a suite or merely a series of miniatures. Is Kreisleriana a set of miniatures? Or is it too interwoven and thus more of a single, coherent work? The same question could be asked for other pieces such as Carnaval, Papillons, etc.
In the end I decided that the works that follow more of a single narrative and are clearly connected would not be considered for this category. This would mean that Kreisleriana, Carnaval, Humoreske, Papillons, Fasschingswank aus Wien,-really the majority of Schumann's masterworks-would not be considered for this category.
Perhaps just as well, because it would be no contest if they were. Even without the main body of his solo works, Schumann is still a strong contender with Kinderszenen, Waldszenen, Fantasiestucke, Album für die Jugend, Nachtstucke, Romances, Bunte Blatter, and the 8 Novelletten. However I do feel that Brahms wins by a hair due to the sheer depth and quality of his Intermezzi, Rhapsodies, Caprices,etc. A split decision but a decision nonetheless.
Etudes: Tie
Both composers are not particularly strong in this category. Brahms has the 51 Exercises which are musically not much different than the Hanon exercises, as well as the 5 Studies which is essentially mishmash of random ideas that Brahms threw together at whim. Schumann has the two sets of Paganini Etudes which are not all that interesting to me.
One could argue for considering the Paganini Variations as a series of etudes (they have the word "studies" in the title) but then one would also have to consider the Symphonic Etudes as being in the same category and then we would be back to a standstill.
Other large-scale works: Schumann
The "other" works of the two composers are hard to categorize. Other than the Sonatas and Variations, Brahms did not write much in the way of large scale works. And the "other" large scale works of Schumann defy description in the way that they formed a genre that didn't yet exist at the time. Either way, it is pretty clear that Schumann dominates large-scale solo composition with his Kreisleriana, Fantasie in C, Humoreske, Davidsbündlertänze, Carnaval, etc.
Conclusion:
Personally, Schumann wins-but if we go by the numbers, the contest is dead even, each with two wins over the other. It is best that we aren't forced to choose between the two and enjoy the music of both.
Sonatas: Schumann
I like the sonatas of both composers, even if they aren't as popular or well-regarded as other works such as the Liszt B Minor or Chopin Op.35. But for me, Schumann's sonatas connect more emotionally and seem to have more variety between them. Sometimes Brahms' sonatas sound almost immature compared to his other works.
Variation works: Brahms
For me, Schumann and Brahms are the two greatest Romantic era contributors to the Theme and Variation genre. However, I think Brahms takes the edge because he has a larger number of variation works I consider to be true artistic statements (variations on Handel, Paganini, and Schumann). Schumann only has one masterpiece in the genre (the Symphonic Etudes) while the other ones are either unfinished (the Beethoven variations) or lighter/immature (Abegg variations).
Miniatures: Brahms
This was a hard category to judge because it is difficult to distinguish between a Schumann work that might be labelled a suite or merely a series of miniatures. Is Kreisleriana a set of miniatures? Or is it too interwoven and thus more of a single, coherent work? The same question could be asked for other pieces such as Carnaval, Papillons, etc.
In the end I decided that the works that follow more of a single narrative and are clearly connected would not be considered for this category. This would mean that Kreisleriana, Carnaval, Humoreske, Papillons, Fasschingswank aus Wien,-really the majority of Schumann's masterworks-would not be considered for this category.
Perhaps just as well, because it would be no contest if they were. Even without the main body of his solo works, Schumann is still a strong contender with Kinderszenen, Waldszenen, Fantasiestucke, Album für die Jugend, Nachtstucke, Romances, Bunte Blatter, and the 8 Novelletten. However I do feel that Brahms wins by a hair due to the sheer depth and quality of his Intermezzi, Rhapsodies, Caprices,etc. A split decision but a decision nonetheless.
Etudes: Tie
Both composers are not particularly strong in this category. Brahms has the 51 Exercises which are musically not much different than the Hanon exercises, as well as the 5 Studies which is essentially mishmash of random ideas that Brahms threw together at whim. Schumann has the two sets of Paganini Etudes which are not all that interesting to me.
One could argue for considering the Paganini Variations as a series of etudes (they have the word "studies" in the title) but then one would also have to consider the Symphonic Etudes as being in the same category and then we would be back to a standstill.
Other large-scale works: Schumann
The "other" works of the two composers are hard to categorize. Other than the Sonatas and Variations, Brahms did not write much in the way of large scale works. And the "other" large scale works of Schumann defy description in the way that they formed a genre that didn't yet exist at the time. Either way, it is pretty clear that Schumann dominates large-scale solo composition with his Kreisleriana, Fantasie in C, Humoreske, Davidsbündlertänze, Carnaval, etc.
Conclusion:
Personally, Schumann wins-but if we go by the numbers, the contest is dead even, each with two wins over the other. It is best that we aren't forced to choose between the two and enjoy the music of both.
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Brahms Op. 118 is great but not substantial enough on its own. If the poll treated Op. 116-119 as a single body of work, you would have a contender.
To my mind Schumann's best work for solo piano, which no one has nominated, is perhaps the old-fashioned choice, Carnaval. It's not as sensuous as Kreisleriana and the Fantasie, but after many hearings I find it a more memorable work on a note-by-note basis. As a listening experience it reminds me of the Diabelli Variations. It's austere, but great. The first movement of the Fantasie may be even greater, but not the other movements of the Fantasie.
But if I had to place one work above all others, it would be Liszt's Reminiscences de Norma. It's not well known, but nothing else for solo piano is so well-paced at such length. It tells a story as naturally and organically as a Beethoven sonata, but it is longer than any one movement from the sonatas. And that incredible finale! Liszt set out to write a parody of Thalberg, but he accidentally wrought something magnificent.
To my mind Schumann's best work for solo piano, which no one has nominated, is perhaps the old-fashioned choice, Carnaval. It's not as sensuous as Kreisleriana and the Fantasie, but after many hearings I find it a more memorable work on a note-by-note basis. As a listening experience it reminds me of the Diabelli Variations. It's austere, but great. The first movement of the Fantasie may be even greater, but not the other movements of the Fantasie.
But if I had to place one work above all others, it would be Liszt's Reminiscences de Norma. It's not well known, but nothing else for solo piano is so well-paced at such length. It tells a story as naturally and organically as a Beethoven sonata, but it is longer than any one movement from the sonatas. And that incredible finale! Liszt set out to write a parody of Thalberg, but he accidentally wrought something magnificent.
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Norma is among my favorite of Liszt's operatic paraphrases, along with Don Juan. And yes, an argument can be made for Carnaval being Schumann's best work, even though I picked his Fantasie-of which I believe all three movements are equally excellent (yes, even the 2nd movement which is abounding in spectacular harmonic language).
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It's actually the third movement that I have the strongest reservations about, but I just fundamentally disagree that either of the later movements is a match for the astonishing first. They are by no means bad, but they are never quite inventive enough to justify their considerable length. It doesn't surprise me that they were not written at the same time as the first movement. I believe the piece would be performed much more often if it had remained a one-movement work, like a Chopin Ballade.
Schumann did the same thing again with the Piano Concerto, and I have similar reservations there. His second thoughts were rarely as inspired as his first.
It would probably be performed more often then, yes... Since the second movement is insanely difficult even for the greatest pianists, with its crazy difficult jumps/skips in the coda.
I could actually live the rest of my life without either, but I'd miss Brahms far more than Schumann when it comes to solo piano music.
I classify Romantic piano music thusly according to my preferences, with a top 2 or 3 in each category in descending order. Note that I don’t include Beethoven or Schubert because I think they only have one foot across the Classical/Romantic line.
Sonatas: Liszt, Chopin 2/3, Brahms 3
Variations: Brahms - Variations and Fugue on a Theme by Handel, Schumann - Symphonic Etudes
Fantasia: Schumann - Fantasie in C, Chopin - Fantaisie in F Minor and Polonaise-Fantaisie
Ballades: Chopin 1 and 4 (2 and 3 don’t do too much for me), all 4 of Brahms which should be performed together like a sonata
Etudes: Chopin Op. 10, Liszt Transcendental Etudes, Rachmaninoff Op. 39
Preludes: Chopin, Rachmaninoff
Miscellaneous miniatures: Brahms Opp. 116-119, Chopin Nocturnes, Rachmaninoff - 6 Moments Musicaux
Random: Chopin - Barcarolle, Franck - Prelude, Chorale, and Fugue (really underrated)
Sonatas: Liszt, Chopin 2/3, Brahms 3
Variations: Brahms - Variations and Fugue on a Theme by Handel, Schumann - Symphonic Etudes
Fantasia: Schumann - Fantasie in C, Chopin - Fantaisie in F Minor and Polonaise-Fantaisie
Ballades: Chopin 1 and 4 (2 and 3 don’t do too much for me), all 4 of Brahms which should be performed together like a sonata
Etudes: Chopin Op. 10, Liszt Transcendental Etudes, Rachmaninoff Op. 39
Preludes: Chopin, Rachmaninoff
Miscellaneous miniatures: Brahms Opp. 116-119, Chopin Nocturnes, Rachmaninoff - 6 Moments Musicaux
Random: Chopin - Barcarolle, Franck - Prelude, Chorale, and Fugue (really underrated)
If you mention Chopin Nocturnes, why not mention his Mazurkas also? They are just as great as a body of work, and there is even more innovation there. And of course, don't forget Chopin's Op 25.
I love the mazurkas and probably should have included them in the miniatures category. I also like Op. 25 but think Op. 10 is more consistently interesting.
It just might be my favorite under-10-minutes piece of music of all time, but in terms of "greatest Romantic piano works" I think the ultimate honor has to go the Liszt sonata, or even Chopin's nocturnes and preludes.
I think the Barcarolle might be Chopin's masterpiece. I also think a work like Davidsbündlertänze is greater than Liszt's sonata. That is a highly controversial opinion, I know. But my opinion, still. But why should we consider Chopin's Nocturnes as being one work? Every opus among the nocturnes is one work of its own, I think...
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Davidsbündlertänze being greater than the Liszt sonata is sure to be a contentious opinion but one I can get behind. Both pieces are so inventive at every turn that it's difficult to judge which one is better.
On the other hand, I am not a huge fan of Liszt. I find Schubert's D 845 in A minor greater than Liszt's sonata... Now THAT seems to be a controversial opinion. Davidsbündlertänze is in my opinion Schumann's greatest achievement for piano.
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Well, it is controversial to say that D.845 is a Romantic work in the first place! If I were making a poll I would start from 1828- and go all the way to Rachmaninov, perhaps include his 2nd Sonata.
Still voted for Schumann though. Extraordinarily intimate and passionate, like no composer before or after him.
Yes I didn't mean D 845 is a romantic work. It is on the border between classical and romantic, in the true sense of the word. But I consider it to be greater music than Liszt's sonata, and I am always upset that people don't consider it as great as it deserves to be considered.
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I voted with my heart and chose Schumann's Fantaisie. It might not be as grand as Liszt's Sonata or Schubert's D.960, but no other piece in the entire repertoire typifies Romanticism as well for me. There is passion brimming over the page with every melody and chord - you are almost afraid to touch the keys in the final movement for fear of misrepresenting the extreme sensitivity of each emotion. I also think that the Fantaisie is easier to choose than one of Schumann's other masterpieces because each movement is slightly longer and the piece feels a little more developed, though a piece like Kreisleriana has more development between "movements" than one often thinks. Also, Schumann presents a whole new conception of how to appreciate music that goes against the Beethovenian concept of "development".
I also think that it's possible that the concept of "greatest work" is slightly unfair to Chopin because he typically composed in sets or miniatures, so his individual pieces don't stand out as much. To be fair, he probably has the best overall piano repertoire of any of the composers on the list, and the Op. 23 Preludes probably belongs at the very top of this list if evaluated rightfully as a set. I think any one of his Ballades could also be near the very top if they were either a little longer or taken together. Unfortunately, he is kind of given the short end of the stick in these kinds of polls.
I don't love Liszt, but there are portions of Harmonies Poétiques et Religieuses and Annees de Pelerinage that reach heights for me greater than that of the Sonata. I'm also not sure if this list was meant to be limited to a certain time period or geographic region, but a few pieces that definitely deserve a mention in a poll like this are Mussorgsky's Pictures and Grieg's Lyric Pieces. But they are not "High Romantic".
I also think that it's possible that the concept of "greatest work" is slightly unfair to Chopin because he typically composed in sets or miniatures, so his individual pieces don't stand out as much. To be fair, he probably has the best overall piano repertoire of any of the composers on the list, and the Op. 23 Preludes probably belongs at the very top of this list if evaluated rightfully as a set. I think any one of his Ballades could also be near the very top if they were either a little longer or taken together. Unfortunately, he is kind of given the short end of the stick in these kinds of polls.
I don't love Liszt, but there are portions of Harmonies Poétiques et Religieuses and Annees de Pelerinage that reach heights for me greater than that of the Sonata. I'm also not sure if this list was meant to be limited to a certain time period or geographic region, but a few pieces that definitely deserve a mention in a poll like this are Mussorgsky's Pictures and Grieg's Lyric Pieces. But they are not "High Romantic".
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