Firstly, I don't think attendance at a concert is a good measure of who's listening. The vast majority of people listen to recordings. Still, classical music doesn't seem to have the popularity that is enjoyed by other genres. Secondly, unfortunately, there is little to nothing you can do to make other people like anything. Probably, the best thing you can do is to tell people about the music you listen to, when they talk about the music they listen to. When people visit, put on a wide selection of classical music, possibly mixed in with other music. Present it as a further listening option, be knowledgeable and never lecture about or force your taste on others. Lead by example and maybe some will follow.

 

Here here to this, but I take it a tad further... I force feed people absolute music all the time.

I have around 80 gigs of nothing but the greats on my xbox and when my friends want to play cod they do it to music, usually Prokofiev, Shostakovich, and Wagner. One of my friends got hooked on Mendelssohn's piano concerto in a, its all he ever requests... I keep telling him a 13 year old wrote it but he doesn't believe me.

 

Once upon a time in 2001 from a time machine experience, Albert7 decided to return back from his older self into the younger self metamorphosis. The place is at Cutler's Record Shop in New Haven where Albert7 was attending Yale during his graduate school days. He is the epitome of the typical jock hipster who just bought a TEAC turntable for his dorm room and after entering the music shop, he encounters a young lovely lady at the information desk.

Albert7: Hello, I'm Albert. How are you doing today?
Girl: Welcome to Cutler's. Do you need any help here?
Albert7: Yes, I'm a 24 year old guy and trying to get into vinyl collecting. I listen to some classical music so I'm just wondering what you have in stock here.
Girl: Well, we just got in the latest Hilary Hahn Mozart album. Here you go. (pulls out)

Albert7: Are you serious? That record cover just looks hideous seriously. It wouldn't look good on my shelf. Sorry. Do you have any classical music albums with actually good looking stuff on the cover? The music may be good but it isn't to help my dating chances if I stick that up to court any of the fine Yale ladies here.
Girl: (apologizing profusely) I'm so so sorry. I thought that you were one of those classical music nerds who actually wanted to hear just the music.
Albert7: I'm a record collector first. I only buy albums which have great looking covers.
Girl: But you know that Hilary Hahn does look adorable.
Albert7: There isn't creative about that cover honestly. All DG did was to pose Hahn with a violin and snapped a picture.
Girl: Well, but that's the way the classical music label does it. They are pretty conservative.
Albert7: (seeing a promotional poster over on the wall) Is that Boulez on the poster over there?

Girl: Yes, it is. But it isn't an album however. It's a poster autographed by the maestro himself.
Albert7: You see, I want that on my album cover. A genius surrounded by a bunch of fine fly ladies. Or something like Mozart with the likes of dancers and pirate booty.
Girl: Sorry but I don't think that the classical music record label would go for that type of photo on their album. Pli Selon Pli wouldn't sell any records.
Albert7: On second thought, I don't think that I want to buy any classical music then. I am a graduate student and barely clock in about $10/hour with my library campus job. I have limited funds.
Girl: Well, good luck, go find something else sexier then. I can't help you.
Albert7: (after skimming and filing through various LPs) Okay, I'm ready to check out. I found a bunch of creative looking albums just now.

Girl: (checking me out) You sure about getting all of this? None of these are classical albums.
Albert7: I know but at least I can stick any of these albums and get more dates honestly. At least, the record label put in more effort to do abstract art or take photos of ladies in more creative poses than throwing a person with a violin. At least the women will think that I have tastes which are more hip to the game.
Girl: Oh okay, that will be $41.56.

(fast forward to 2015 to the current habitat of Albert7 in SLC)...

Albert7 in 2015: Based on seeing Albert7 in his younger years, his musical tastes were based on purchasing based on looks before the contents get played. So tips to the classical music label folks to push out records like Taylor Swift or Lindsey Stirling.

1) If you have an abstract piece like Boulez's Pli Selon Pli, use an album cover with abstract artwork of Gerhard Richter or that wall poster of Boulez with the bikini tiki ladies. If Eazy-E was able to court the ladies with refinement and make bank, then there is no reason that Boulez couldn't show that he could do the same.
2) If you have a warhorse that Hilary Hahn is playing, try to switch up the game. For example, stick Hahn in a snow globe with psychedelic colors like this:

3) Selling records is all about looks, if the album cover looks good on a shelf then it's more likely to push weight out onto the streets. Having Carlos Kleiber conducting with crazy arms in black and white is just not going to move more units in the industry than Dudamel rocking his punk rock dreads with a flailing baton brushing a rainbow against a pink background. Young kids buy generally records on impulse so to get hook line and sinker into the young folks with Beethoven String Quartets, the labels need to have the performers do something unexpected and crazy on the album cover.
4) The contents don't matter inside honestly. Even a bad performance sells a lot. Use colored vinyl if possible with a crazy color pattern on the label. Kids just don't really go for black vinyl anymore. Think how many colors the iPhone come in and reflect on why Mozart's Jupiter Symphony pressed on tie dye colored wax is going to be like... totally fresh.

 

Once upon a time in 2001 [...]

[....]Albert7: Are you serious? That record cover just looks hideous seriously. It wouldn't look good on my shelf. Sorry. Do you have any classical music albums with actually good looking stuff on the cover? The music may be good but it isn't to help my dating chances if I stick that up to court any of the fine Yale ladies here[....]

1) If you have an abstract piece like Boulez's Pli Selon Pli, use an album cover with abstract artwork of Gerhard Richter or that wall poster of Boulez with the bikini tiki ladies. If Eazy-E was able to court the ladies with refinement and make bank, then there is no reason that Boulez couldn't show that he could do the same.
2) If you have a warhorse that Hilary Hahn is playing, try to switch up the game. For example, stick Hahn in a snow globe with psychedelic colors like this:
3) Selling records is all about looks, if the album cover looks good on a shelf then it's more likely to push weight out onto the streets. Having Carlos Kleiber conducting with crazy arms in black and white is just not going to move more units in the industry than Dudamel rocking his punk rock dreads with a flailing baton brushing a rainbow against a pink background. Young kids buy generally records on impulse so to get hook line and sinker into the young folks with Beethoven String Quartets, the labels need to have the performers do something unexpected and crazy on the album cover.
4) The contents don't matter inside honestly. Even a bad performance sells a lot. Use colored vinyl if possible with a crazy color pattern on the label. Kids just don't really go for black vinyl anymore. Think how many colors the iPhone come in and reflect on why Mozart's Jupiter Symphony pressed on tie dye colored wax is going to be like... totally fresh.

Was the intention of this post humorous? Or did you actually have a conversation like this?

Are you actually advocating these suggestions?:

 

My own experience is this: While I was exposed to classical music from a very early age, I didn't embrace it until much later in life. It was too difficult, required too much effort, wasn't popular with my friends and didn't have any meaning to me when I was young. It didn't speak to my own experiences the way, say, Dylan or the Beatles did. I wanted to listen to what was popular because when you're young, you want to be part of the popular, trendy things in life. And you relate to the music that describes in some way your own youthful experiences.

After popular music, I veered toward a decidedly unpopular music -- jazz, which is generally more introspective than popular music, but still hip and tethered to popular music in some fundamental ways.

It is only fairly recently that I have embraced classical (big tent), which is often a more solitary music. Many people don't seem to want to share the experience of listening to classical music at all. Crowds are sometimes too distracting or noisy for them to enjoy the experience. ... For many people it's simply not an experience to share. And this is decidedly going against what young people want, which is shared experiences.

So, if my musical journey is somewhat typical, classical music may always be skewed toward a more "mature" demographic.

This isn't to say there aren't young people who get into it at a very early age; there certainly are. Or that musicians, orchestras and opera companies don't make thoughtful outreach efforts to attract young people; they do. Those coffee house / pub chamber music nights gained some popularity for a while. Don't know if they are still a "thing" but I thought that was a great idea!

But in the end, mass appeal to a younger audience may simply not be possible.

 

My own experience is this: While I was exposed to classical music from a very early age, I didn't embrace it until much later in life. It was too difficult, required too much effort, wasn't popular with my friends and didn't have any meaning to me when I was young. It didn't speak to my own experiences the way, say, Dylan or the Beatles did. I wanted to listen to what was popular because when you're young, you want to be part of the popular, trendy things in life. And you relate to the music that describes in some way your own youthful experiences.

After popular music, I veered toward a decidedly unpopular music -- jazz, which is generally more introspective than popular music, but still hip and tethered to popular music in some fundamental ways.

It is only fairly recently that I have embraced classical (big tent), which is often a more solitary music. Many people don't seem to want to share the experience of listening to classical music at all. Crowds are sometimes too distracting or noisy for them to enjoy the experience. ... For many people it's simply not an experience to share. And this is decidedly going against what young people want, which is shared experiences.

So, if my musical journey is somewhat typical, classical music may always be skewed toward a more "mature" demographic.

This isn't to say there aren't young people who get into it at a very early age; there certainly are. Or that musicians, orchestras and opera companies don't make thoughtful outreach efforts to attract young people; they do. Those coffee house / pub chamber music nights gained some popularity for a while. Don't know if they are still a "thing" but I thought that was a great idea!

But in the end, mass appeal to a younger audience may simply not be possible.

I think you raise some excellent points and largely agree with what you say. I'm not sure that classical music being more "solitary" entirely explains why it is more popular with an older audience; I know many people, myself included, who enjoy public concerts and enjoy sharing our experiences of classical music with others. In fact I'm part of an opera/classical meet up group who does just that; gets together for concerts and even home listening and viewing parties to share in our love for the art forms and partake in the camaraderie that comes from that. Although I tend to agree that like many of the greatest and most profound art forms and works of art, in general it does strike a deeper chord with a more mature audience. An audience that has lived and gained life experiences and has a deeper appreciation for the subtleties, nuances and insights the music offers.

 

It will never rival popular music in popularity..because it isn't pop music. It will tend to remain a niche genre. There are many people who would embrace it if they were exposed to it in a menainful way. I have always found that music used to accompany movies or television tends to attract new listeners.

 

Don't see that probem. OK we only go to a few Operas, usually in Lowestoft, and there a range of ages. When we went to Snape for English Touring Opera, it was a fairly young crowd. When we go to see Norwich Baroque, it's a fairly mixed audience. Most of the players are young so the audience includes their friends and family. When we were in York, for the Early Music Festival, that was again a youngish audience.

Basically young people who are into Classical Music in a big way seem to me to be going in two different directions - older music and modern music - leaving the traditional 19th century repertoire for the oldies.

 

The use of cm in movies goes a long way imo.

 

 

This is how I imagine the valkyries when I listen to the ring cycle.

 

I don't think that there is a problem with the level of popularity of classical music. Even back in the days of operatic matadors like Mario del Monaco young people and the majority of common people listened more to popular music. Nowadays pop music is more powerful in mainstream society but many great classical pieces are still frequently referenced within the realm of popular culture, too. Many people, young and old, then dig deeper into the world of classical and I think there's enough of them. I prefer an opera house with few passionate people in it rather than many superficial snobs who only go there for prestige reasons.

 

I think we need new music that sounds great + more of it in the media like on television.Not to many channels show classical music.

 

I think the best way would be if there was a way for people to hear classical music without looking for it. The only way I can imagine that would be as soundtracks or guest performances in talkshows.

 

I think newly composed contemporary music need to sound accessible and can relate to any listener. Then people will naturally want to explore more of it.

 

Have you ever been involved with the management of a symphony orchestra? Are you aware of any studies that show if an orchestra only programs tonal music their attendance goes up? So how do you know if this change in programing would work?

If you recall I have been involved music organizations where the people who though that programing music that real people like to listen to would help attendance. See: http://www.talkclassical.com/31317-rant-horrible-music-composers-9.html#post639571

 

Make sure the pieces are all three and a half minutes long, and give them a good beat.

 

The following thread is one of the many threads in this forum that have addressed this issue: http://www.talkclassical.com/36729-should-classical-music-more.html

I am in my sixties and I remember when I was younger most of the audience was old people. Now I am one of the old ones. I can only speak for myself but I am hesitant to spend a few hundred dollars to hear another performance of the Dvorak New World Symphony even though it is one of my favorites.

I know some like to blame Schoenberg for the apparent like of popularity of classical music.

Check out the Delian Society: http://deliansociety.org/

Maybe you have some new ideas.

 

Unfortunately, the only way classical music could become more popular would be to insert more popular genres into the classical mold. There are a few folks on this board who try to do just that. I hope this move doesn't succeed.

 

I do not ever want to see the classical equivalent to Lil Wayne.

 

If people want to listen to music that sounds like Mozart, they can listen to Mozart. Most choose not to do so (to their discredit, IMO). I'm not sure a new Mozart-ish composer will change things.

 

I really think that classical music is becoming a lot more popular... already I heard more classical music in movie soundtracks for the past two films I just saw recently... While We're Young and Clouds of Sils Maria.

So classical music isn't that unpopular. To think such would be elitist. Classical music is best served to everyone equally.

And Lindsey Stirling is helping too. Kudos to her.

 

I also think that classical music isn't that unpopular and that many musicians embed into their music classical instruments like the violin. And as you said, many artists, like Lindsey Stirling, are helping to make it popular. Or just think about Pavarotti who combined classical music with rock or pop or who sang with musicians like Brian Adams, Bono of U2, Stevie Wonder and many more. Or just think of Freddie Mercury from Queen who sang with Monserrat Caballe. So classical music will definitely be kept popular.

I have added some links where Mercury sings with Monserrat Caballe:

and Pavarotti singing with Stevie Wonder:

Pavarotti singing with Bryan Adams:

 

Please forgive my earlier sarcasm.

I really do not know what could be done to make it more popular.

Based on my experience suppressing atonal music is not the answer.

 

Just take popular music and call it classical I guess. Millions of classical listeners that way.

 

Two articles with differing points of view. One says it is dead and the other says the crossover classical artists are making a positive impact. Who knows. The fact that the 20 and 30 somethings are getting back into vinyl might make a difference. There are reports that they are beginning to discover classical through vinyl.

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2014/01/classical_music_sales_decline_is_classical_on_death_s_door.html

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/music-arts/classical-music-blowing-article-1.1618623

 

I personally don't want to make classical music more popular. To do so would lower the quality of the music, in my opinion.

 

Then I feel very, very sorry for the shop assistant that had to suffer that exchange.

Well, no worries. Albert7 of today wouldn't tolerate the Albert7 jerk of yesteryear.

And honestly just because something is popular doesn't make it reduce in quality at all. I don't know how one could "dumb down" classical music either. Beethoven's Fifth Symphony recordings will continue to exist in good quantity .

 

The easiest way to make classical more popular is to make it seem cool, and the only way to do that is to have most of the 40, 50, and 60 something year olds loudly denounce it and renounce it. And I'm afraid I couldn't do that.

 

Teach children music - all children. Music should not be an "extracurricular luxury" and the first thing to go when the budget needs trimming.

Reading music, writing it, playing it, singing it, listening to it...Actually listening. This last may take a little practice at sitting still for more than three minutes unaccompanied by a screen.

Ideas about "marketing" classical music in "fresh, cool, edgy" ways to appeal to the young are simply degrading to music and insulting to young people, as well as to the rest of us.

Bring the consciousness of youngsters up to the level of great music - not great music down to the abysmal level of popular "culture."

Education, cultivation, edification..."because it's good for you." Anybody else old enough to remember that concept?

Oh, that's right, sorry... We musn't demand anything of the little darlings. Don't want to damage their self-esteem and appear irrelevant. Old people should be seen and not heard from - and not even seen, if possible.

 

I saw a heavy metal show in Los Angeles last night and one of the bands let a ten year old kid get on stage and sing along with them- 'edifying' is right. That kid's dad knows what life's about by taking his son to the show. That kid will never forget the experience.

I can just see the kid saying to his friends at school: "I sang with the Swedish power metal band Sabaton at the Greek Theater last Friday night- what'd 'you' do? I'm going to front my own band when my dad buys me a PA for Christmas."

Nothing's more important to me either than art and music.

Great art inspires you to unleash your own potentialities.

 

That's very interesting. My girlfriend who was born and lived in Chihuahua (in Mexico) for about 13 years is also a classical music fan and went to concerts as much as possible when living there. The age demographics were quite the opposite with many many more young people than old! Whenever I go to a concert where I live, depending on the repertoire, the amounts of grey hairs seen constantly varies. A local opera company who champions less often performed repertoire seems to have many more people in their 20s to 40s than 60+ in their audience. A symphony orchestra playing a few warhorses of classical repertoire seems to garner many more people in their 50s and over however.

If we were to popularise classical music for any generation, I would say that simply printing more copies and selling Bach Cantatas, Mozart Operas, Mahler Symphonies etc. in ordinary shops everyone goes to would get people interested.....

 

If we were to popularise classical music for any generation, I would say that simply printing more copies and selling Bach Cantatas, Mozart Operas, Mahler Symphonies etc. in ordinary shops everyone goes to would get people interested.....

You really think so? It's not like you can't find the music on Amazon, iTunes, and all the other places young people buy music.

 

I think it might help if stars like Justin Bieber and Rihanna were to appear in classical-music commercials.

 

That would only encourage Boulez to start liking opera houses again.

 

Classical music students from the local University play in our local shopping mall form time to time which is really nice to stop and listen to. Also, our local classical music store have a promotion day with players performing either on piano or violin. They do attract a good crowd.
We get street performers too.

I remember when I was in a bedsit, my student neighbour opposite was learning the flute and she would practice a fair bit, she would ask if it disturbed me, I said no, I loved it, play on! We were good friends after that.