I'm not going to listen/watch that video (I'm sorry, I just don't care enough about that composer), but Lou Harrison's Piano Concerto uses just intonation. It's a fascinating work, and gorgeous, too, but if I can level any kind of criticism against this concerto, the second movement Stampede goes on far too long. Check out this work (if you haven't already).

 

I'm not going to listen/watch that video (I'm sorry, I just don't care enough about that composer), but Lou Harrison's Piano Concerto uses just intonation. It's a fascinating work, and gorgeous, too, but if I can level any kind of criticism against this concerto, the second movement Stampede goes on far too long. Check out this work (if you haven't already).

I will listen to it. Thanks for the recommendation!

 

I wasn't very hopeful at first, since I don't like La Monte Young's Well-tuned Piano at all, which also uses just intonation. But I was pleasantly surprised with this. Very moody, and he makes good use of the intonation.

 

I wasn't very hopeful at first, since I don't like La Monte Young's Well-tuned Piano at all, which also uses just intonation.

Are you sure that Well Tuned Piano uses just intonation?

 

Sounds out of tune- but having lived with equal tuning for 70 years and getting my own piano regularly tuned that way, anything is just hard on the ears. Sounds like a soundtrack for some horror movie.

 

Funny, because for me these notes that deviate from the equal tuning represent absolute bliss! In this we are quite opposite.

(Of course I welcome diversity even in this and appreciate all opinions.)

 

I'm with @mbhaub on this. As a pianist also having my piano tuned equally for decades, I can't take to this at all. I much prefer just intonation on less mechanical instruments such as strings or vocals where its effect can be less clanging and jarring for my ears.
I'll confess to a 10 minute skimming of this and tbh on the strength of what I heard it was a little bland musically for me. I actually think what I heard would have shone more for me and become more moving and engaging played in ET.

 

Ditto 100%.

I've spent almost my entire life listening to equal temperament, and THAT sounds like "being in tune". This just-tuned piano sounds pretty jarring to my ears, even when the pianist is playing quietly and soulfully.

Only in the last five years have I accepted that a cappella choirs tune a bit 'flat', but come around when accompanied by a even-tuned piano.

 

How did piano music composers have their pianos tuned - Chopin, Liszt etc?

 

It' isn't unthinkable that Liszt used equal tuning, which was coming into the fore at his time. His harmonic language also seems to presuppose equal tuning or something very close to equal tuning. For that reason I find it more interesting which tuning Mozart and Beethoven used, if we know it at all.

 

This Harrison piece is not that interesting but I must say, it does have more atmosphere using just intonation, otherwise I wouldn't see any point at all.

 

Thanks, all! Most interesting. ☺

The point of the Harrison piece is to let this alternative tuning really shine, I think. The work achieves just that so I do not judge it without this primary artistic function.

 

 

"Unequal" is too imprecise. We are not told which kinds of unequal tunings are used here. And where these tunings stand in a historical perspective - that would be interesting.

 

The names I know for exploring Just Intonation are Ben Johnston and Harry Partch -- the latter didn't write any piano music as far as I know, but Johnston did. Having said that, I'm not totally sure whether this is just intonation

 

Yeeouch! Ben Johnston has been on my bad list lately.

 

For years I had a cheap harpsichord that I tuned myself - and I experimented with Pythagorean (not very suitable for practical use), mean-tone and Werkmeister III tuning. Really fun and you can do that easily yourself with the help of some simple mathematics. It was great to hear how early baroque music sounded so much fresher and livelier.

But at the end I still retuned it to equal temperament. Being able to play Bach's WK was worth more to me than the special sound of nonstandard tuning.

 

In a positive way I envy you of your gorgeous experiment! 🤩

 

Another tuning experiment with music by Bach, Beethoven, Schumann and Liszt.

Steinway B in unequal temperament - experimental concert at London Marylebone Theatre (youtube.com)

 

This may be of interest

Historical Temperament Tunings on the Modern Concert Piano (piano-tuners.org)

 

I don't know what it is about piano in particular, but I've never enjoyed any non 12-tet music written for it. It gets this "chorusy" sound that other microtonal music doesn't. I'd love to do a spectral analysis or something to actually see what's actually going on scientifically. Will definitely have to check some of these pieces out sometime though!

 

I've often wondered about equal temperament. It robs each key of its unique character, but makes them all playable. The title page of Bach's manuscript of the first book of the well tempered clavier had those squiggles which are now believed to provide the details of his own well temperament. Brad Lehman at Univ. of Michigan has developed a tuning he believes is the same as Bach described and there have been some videos posted on Youtube about it. I suggest you search them out and hear the differences, it's really rather remarkable.

 

It has a strangely relaxing, eery quality to it, but it sounds out of tune to me. Perhaps it would lose the eeriness with enough exposure.

 

You're not missing much. I listened to it again, and it sounded a lot less interesting the 2nd time around. The eeriness was a plus.

 

Something sounds a bit out of tune, that's all I can say. I don't think I can listen to an hour of this.

 

Have you heard the Lou Harrison Piano Concerto? This may change your mind.