Too bad having children didn't give her the voice for Norma...sorry guys, apparently I'm full of hate today

 

Too bad having children didn't give her the voice for Norma...sorry guys, apparently I'm full of hate today

Many singers can encompass the notes of the title role of Norma, but it doesn’t mean they should sing it.

 

A comment left on Youtube by a certain Ethel Smith:
"My oh my that is a friendly voice! I didn’t know there were slow trills on all the top notes. Must be a new technique "

 

Parenthood sounds like torture. Maybe that's what she's trying to convey?

 

I know you mean vocal production and not voice acting. But I will pretend I did not understand. Yes, when Norma is singing Casta diva, she already knows, Pollione is supposed to depart tomorrow, but did not tell her anything about when and how he is going to pick up her or the children. So Norma certainly does not feel OK. I like both acting choices - a Norma, who looks perfectly composed and charismatic, to make the audience understand, how she became so powerful. Or Norma, who lets us know, that she is secretly miserable. Yoncheva comes across as moving to me, taking the second option.

 

Oh, come on, people ! If she were paired up with someone very dead in a contest, maybe I would not vote for her. But I am completely happy with this video. The world is mine

 

Callas never had kids ...not a problem.

 

I don't like her voice in this either. I don't have any problems with constructive criticism, but can we refrain from joking about singers? It's still bullying even when the singers can't see it.

 

We should not use certain words in vain, otherwise they lose their meaning. There is no bullying in this thread. Some of us find it funny that Yoncheva seems to think she can better interpret Norma because she had children while her voice, which is technically deficient, is therefore all wrong for it. From an acting point of view, maybe it can help (even though the clip above does not impress me), but from a vocal point of view, she should stay far away from the Priestess.

 

And I do like it. It's emotional.

 

In what way? In any case, is it meant to be emotional? This is Norma's public figure calming the Druids. She is the stateswoman here, calm and in command. She only expresses her private thoughts in the cabaletta.

 

Sonya Yoncheva is unique talent and brilliant opera artist. One of the best voices of Bulgaria, IHMO

Having children has nothing to do with the solid base he have.

 

I love quoting Divas and Scholars !

"Lyric Opera (of Chicago) seemed an unlikely venue for the congress, since the general manager at that time, the late Carol Fox, disliked scholars intensely: “Scholars,” she said to me during the week, “I know all about scholars: my [ex-]husband was a scholar.” She certainly was not pleased by the participants’ criticisms of the new Lyric production of Simon Boccanegra by Giorgio De Lullo, whose failure to pay attention to details of the libretto turned an opera somewhat difficult to follow (...) In sessions of the congress where the scholars were not being actively disagreeable, Fox found the discussion arcane. But she had prepared a secret weapon to humble her academic guests. For a panel on the subject of performance practice, she produced a singer of whom everyone was in awe, Maria Callas.
As “La Divina” listened quietly, one professor after another recited the virtues of uncut performances, analyzing tonal schemes that emerged only from complete operas, demonstrating hidden melodic continuities lost when passages were omitted, and so on. When La traviata was discussed, every speaker deplored the practice of cutting the cabaletta “No, non udrai rimproveri” after Germont’s famous baritone cantabile “Di Provenza il mar, il suol”; without this cabaletta, according to the scholars, the act lost its shape and the dramaturgy suffered considerably. By then Callas had had enough. The real problem with the end of the scene, she informed us, was that the baritone sang at all. Violetta was the principal character of the opera, and the drama’s emotional center was Violetta’s “Amami, Alfredo, amami quant’io t’amo... Addio!” After it, the curtain should fall and the scene come to an end. There was no baritone present to register his opinion of cutting the most famous baritone aria Verdi ever wrote, and the scholars were too cowed to take on the diva."

Footnote 25. To be fair to “La Divina,” Will Crutchfield reminds me that in an interview she once opined that in the second act of Tosca, “Vissi d’arte,” her own showstopper, held up the action and ought to be cut. Of course, an opera is not a play, and holding up the action is not always a bad thing. One wonders whether remarks of this kind might not have reflected her interactions with Visconti.

 

I actually think she was right about Traviata. See my reply above.

 

But in all seriousness these comments are entirely satirical. A lot of people are unhappy with the state of operatic singing and understandably so. If this were a one off case, a Florence Foster Jenkins if you will, then I would probably be more considered as it’s likely they might not be of sound mind. But this isn’t the case, FFJ is no longer the exception and I see no reason to believe these artist’s work (not their personality) deserves a respect which it doesn’t show the composer, music or public. With artists like Polenzani, Calleja, Gheorghiu etc. even if I have some problems with their techniques I see no reason to joke and am happy to just give technical criticism but when you get to Netrebko, Kaufmann and Yoncheva it’s hard to take them seriously and to actually critique them is time consuming (there’s a lot to write) and probably less kind than a brief joke. If they are happy to ‘sing’ as they are then they can’t blame others for making a joke of it. They do half the job themselves. At least make an effort to sing properly, but singing Norma with a trill on every note (Sorry Ethel, but it’s not just the high notes) is a little beyond reason. Again, if this was a one off I might be inclined to give an individual the benefit of the doubt but it’s clearly commonplace nowadays.

 

At least make an effort to sing properly... but it’s clearly commonplace nowadays

If it's so clearly common than do they even know that they can sing better? I don't think this is a problem of laziness, but more of the lack of good teachers and maybe talents, how the business pushes singers into roles they are not ready for. And they clearly lack the judgement and sometimes resources to say no.

singing Norma with a trill on every note

I just listen to that Casta Diva again, and even though she (Yoncheva) has this wrong vibrato, or doesn't have enough power i can hear most of the pitches below the high range just fine. I find Joyce Didonato and Angela Meade to have more of the trill vibrato that you speak of, imo. And i'm not saying that her voice is for this role at all

it’s hard to take them seriously and to actually critique them is time consuming (there’s a lot to write) and probably less kind than a brief joke

If i were a singer, i would rather take the direct, straightfoward and severe criticism rather than the joke. Because satarical or not, the joke stings a lot more. And you can definitely be severly critical of the person's work without attacking or joking the person's him/herself. If i have to choose, the "wrong vibrato, sounds like a trill, no legato" is easier to swallow than the "sing as if she's giving birth". Even though you don't really mean to devalue a person with a joke, the joke itself does it.

 

I am hesitating, if I should link to a really bad Norma. So far I am not doing it

 

Of course you should!

 

I do agree that straightforward criticism is better. But at the same time they have received plenty of that over the years and they can’t be unaware of it. In the end they’ve done nothing and while I agree with most of what you’re saying I can't bemoan the occasional joke, especially when they make me giggle.

 

I do agree that straightforward criticism is better. But at the same time they have received plenty of that over the years and they can’t be unaware of it.

I am not sure. If it is true, as you discuss here, that current teaching is bad, why are they expected to doubt the mainstream teachers and look up those that you would approve ? Similar to critics. If the mainstream things they sing well, why should they pay a disproportionate attention to those that don't like them ?

 

I suspect that retirement is harder for singers than for dancers, most of whom can expect to be replaced by younger people by the time they're 40 and are told from an early age to plan on a second career. Singers have no way of knowing how long their voices will last and can easily imagine that they'll be among the lucky few who can go on till they're 70. As they age, most of them surely know that their voices are declining, but they live in hope that their phones will continue ringing and that their fans will continue to applaud them.

Old age sucks, but it's our job to negotiate it gracefully - and other people's job to tell us when we're failing to do so.

 

Obesity is not inevitable, it's difficult to manage.

 

My sister was a lucky relic of an old system. She sang a lot as her opera company in a town of 300,000 had a season that ran every week except for 6 weeks in the summer. She sang for 15 years and at 83 is still drawing a pension from her years of singing. This is unknown today as far as I can tell. She was lucky and came from a family of teachers ( my dad started out as a principal and my mom taught piano and then in public school- so teaching was in her blood). Not every singer has the gift of teaching and teaching is not inevitable for many singers and their training doesn't leave them prepared for the regular workforce and most must retire well before retirement age. Nilssons and Sutherlands who sing into their 60's are not the norm.