On TC there have been several discussions concerning the apparent decline of classical music. In those discussions some have mentioned that it's difficult to know how many people listen because the traditional avenues for listening (concerts, radio, CDs) may be less used today than decades ago. Some have mentioned internet as a major source of classical music listening these days, and certainly younger people tend to use streaming or social media as their main sources.

I think most of us would find the trend mentioned in the BBC article to be a positive one for classical music.

 

I just don't believe it. Maybe in some places, but in general not in the USA. As I get older and crankier I notice a lot of things about younger musicians that disturb me. Most egregious, they do not know the literature. You have no idea how many young people I work with who have never heard a symphony by Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, Mahler, Shostakovich. They know no operas or ballets. The only orchestral music they seem to be familiar with are the blockbusters that they might have played in marching band arrangements. And they have zero interest in the music, the composers or anything else. Now, they know some film music, some video game music, but classical in the ordinary sense? Forget it. It's really discouraging to meet prospective music educators who are oblivious to it all.

As far as audiences go, they're as old as ever. Despite attempts by groups to attract younger players they have little to show for it. I did a Young Musician's Competition in November. The 12 year old kid played the WIenawski 1st concerto amazingly well. Despite advertising, school announcements, etc there weren't throngs of young listeners.

Last week I was approached by a guy who wants to help the orchestra and really attract a crowd of young people and he knows how to do it, LIke this:


If find it horrific, distasteful, vulgar, disrespectful and wrong. If this is what so many of the young think CM is all about, I'm glad they're staying away.

There are places where young people seem really into classical music in the traditional sense: China and Japan for two. There are countless summer music camps for youngsters where they get a heavy dose of CM. But why doesn't that translate to more interest in CDs, concert tickets, etc? Every CM group in the country is looking for answers and so far haven't found them. Sorry, and scary, state of affaris.

 

If find it horrific, distasteful, vulgar, disrespectful and wrong. If this is what so many of the young think CM is all about, I'm glad they're staying away.

I don't doubt what you're saying. The live performance scene in Toronto is better now, though I can't say much about interest among young people. One of the problems is that much in our society generally is "horrific, distasteful, vulgar, disrespectful and wrong."

I just checked out a phrase that has stuck in my mind and it turns out to be from a letter of John Keats: ‘We hate poetry that has a palpable design upon us.’ In my humble opinion there is a palpable design that is undermining the prospects for interest in classical music among young people. Increasingly it comes from the woke, cultural re-setting direction, along with the traditional, budget-cutting direction. More about that later.

 

I don't see people under 25 buying CDs of any music. If American kids have no interest in classical music, who's to blame? Our society doesn't value art and non commercial music so nobody learns about it. I'm afraid we're several generations removed by this point.

 

I am 24 and buy CDs.

 

This sort of explains the number of views and comments (with Urban-Dictionary-style expressions) on youtube videos of Vivaldi's Four Seasons, Beethoven's 9th, Mozart's Requiem, Chopin's Nocturne Op.9 No.2 and other things.

 

In London I think this is true. Put it like this, when I go to concerts I see a much greater proportion of younger to older than ever before. I'm talking about chamber music at The Wigmore Hall, that sort of thing, not 4 Seasons by candlelight.

 

I'm going to hear Mahler 2 in April so it'll be interesting to see who's in the audience.

 

Looking at music students may be misleading. In my experience music students are people who are either forced to play music, or have otherwise shown a talent for it. This does not at all translate into an actual interest in classical music.

In fact in my own experience, after practicing classical music a few hours every day, the absolute last thing I would want to do as a child would be to listen to classical music.

 

I think it's hard to tell. It seems like and could be a slight bouncing back after extreme marginalization of CM since the ~1980s. This marginalization was/is also very different depending on the country and even on demographics within countries.The anglosphere is usually really "bad" here (because the domination of popular culture is worse, and less public funds for arts and music) but small countries like Finland have a large CM scene and others, like Austria or even Germany are keeping their traditions up, if sometimes only for the sake of tradition (or, regionally, tourists).

 

I can only report my own personal observations, which may or may not be supported by objective evidence. But at least here in Southern California, classical music is considered a very fringe interest. Attendance at Disney Hall seems considerably lower than what I previously recall seeing; even concerts which would have assured packed houses pre-COVID now draw, at best, maybe 2/3 capacity.

Online (and according to my observations at my last record store job), it appears that a handful of composers have a crossover appeal for young, receptive, non-specialist listeners. Shostakovich and Glass come to mind. But I wouldn’t necessarily say this is symptomatic of a comeback for classical music.

 

I'm not all that surprised. I've been noticing in recent years the growing popularity of things like 2 Set Violin's YouTube channel, as well as the fact that many classical concerts are often getting millions of views; which is the about the equivalent of what more minor/obscure pop stars get. The internet has really opened up the entire world of music and younger people no longer feel barriers between themselves and exploring any genres, and also aren't limited to what major record labels promote and saturate the radio with like in decades past. I'm also not surprised to hear that young music students are making an impression on social media platforms and drawing young people into classical music that way.

 

I'm not all that surprised. I've been noticing in recent years the growing popularity of things like 2 Set Violin's YouTube channel.

My teenage grandson listens to them. I think it's important for young people to have a frame of reference when they encounter classical music. Here are two young(ish) men who make classical music relatable while being funny and entertaining and who also introduce their listeners to current performers like Hilary Hahn.

 

I've heard that mainstream media is dubious. But there is that picture!

 

Went to see the Cleveland Orchestra‘s sold out MLK gala concert last night and in the audience there was quite a few older people. At one point the MC made an announcement that a demented elderly couple had gotten lost but also that a 19 year old was reported missing by his family. I imagine a lot of the children there attending were taken as grandparent’s hostages but there was also the 20s somethings being repeatedly asked by the ushers to turn off their phones📱 A child went into a screaming shouting fit at one point and multiple cell phones rang throughout the performance. I had a wonderful time.

 

if the young generation are the answer, it must be a stupid question

 

Why exactly? As one of the younger generation, it’s older people who are ruining the planet for us. Pretty stupid answer to the question of global warming

 

This is an outright lie. Most of us know and accept that CM has always been a fringe interest and will always remain so. CM doesn’t need young people to remain viable. Lastly, Gen Z isn’t the answer to anything; it is spineless and apathetic.

 

Again, with an attitude like this it’s no wonder the classical music industry can’t attract younger people

 

It's a bit hard to determine exactly what music the article is talking about. The statements at the beginning (74% of UK under 25 year-olds tune into orchestral Christmas music and under 35 year-olds tune into orchestral music more than their parents) do not necessarily refer to what most of us would consider classical music. These survey results do not mention symphonies, audiences at concerts, or CDs. They refer to people tuning into orchestral music. The article mostly discusses people streaming music or hearing it on social media.

The article talks about hip-hopera, the fusion of classical music and other genres, reimagining K-pop songs, Bowie meets Rachmaninoff, and gaming-themed programming, so possibly much of the popularity is to music played by orchestras but not necessarily what we'd consider as classical.

 

hip-hopera!!??? 🥸

 

You are mistaking some quantity for quality (not of the music but of the iconic status). The cultural impact of Taylor Swift is minuscule compared to these pop stars of older eras. I never cared for popular music but I could not escape some songs by Jackson or Madonna but I know nothing about Taylor Swift but the name and that she is blonde.

This is not directly relevant for the status of CM but it shows the mindset that has trouble to understand that music with 5% marketshare or so, can have high status and considerable impact. Which used to be true for CM to a much larger extent than it is today. By the same argument it's likely that increasing marketshare by getting a few young people will not automatically regain status. It's a bit like Latin. Once Latin had been demoted from a necessary condition for any college education to a sign of distinction for certain prep schools, it doesn't matter that much if 3% or 15% or high school students study Latin, the status has changed irrevocably.

 

I think this exact same article gets written like every five years or so.

 

Where I live, classical music is dead. There's nothing happening. My local orchestra has been reduced in not only size, but their concert schedule is dwindling down and getting smaller on a monthly basis. I, honestly, don't have much hope for classical music around here, but, thankfully, this pitiful demographic doesn't apply to everywhere else.

 

It's only dead where YOU are because no one is picking up the banner.

Get some musicians together, create a themed concert playlist, and offer discounts for those that come dressed as the theme.

I recently MD'd HMS Pinafore, and we had young adults come dressed as sailors.

You could have a "Macabre" or "Steam Punk" concert, and see if people come dressed accordingly.

Macabre concert:
Danse Macabre
Night on Bald Mountain
The Sorcerer's Apprentice
Dies Irae from Verdi’s Requiem.
Prokofiev’s Scythian Suite

for starters. There's plenty more where those came from. Theme from The Exorcist.

All you have to do is convince your local orchestra to TRY something like this. And promote it.

 

Classical Music is the ultimate in "Anti-Cool".

Being "Cool" is viewed nowadays as mindless. Being deliberately "on the outside" is preferable.

 

Anything Gen Z does is trendy. The shocking thing to mainstream culture is that anyone still cares for classical music - it being elitist, and plenty other other "ists."

 

I remember all the talk about the death of classical music in the late 70s...

And in the 80s...

And in the 90s...

And in the early 2000s...

(P.S. It never happened)

Then came the internet age, and the availability, and accessibility of classical music became enormous and ubiquitous, and its "death" was never further away.

 

Death and decline are two different things. As I mentioned elsewhere, I don't think the "death" of classical music will ever happen, but that a decline has occurred in the prestige and centrality it formerly held on musical culture can be more persuasively argued.

 

I'm young(ish) and buy LPs, hah. It helps that classical LPs are the only ones which didn't skyrocket in speculation prices (apart from old RCAs)...


that said operas can be annoying. especially the ones in autochanger format where the first LP has sides 1/6!

 

It depends on how you define decline.

Maybe the percentage of people interested in classical has declined (I'm far from sure that that's true), but there is no doubt that the raw number of people with access to, and interest in, classical music, has never been higher.

 

It depends on how you define decline.

Less consumption. Be it record, CD or steaming.

Classical has been pretty much as on a straight decline since 1900.
I looked for some graphs for you that I have seen over the years but can't find them right now. Most graphs only list top 10 genres of which classical does not make at all.,

 

Report shows spike in young people listening to classical

A new collaborative report has revealed that classical music streams have risen among young fans. The trend is said to have accelerated during lockdown.

www.prsformusic.com

 

That's a very different debate, but sure.

So, far more people listening, but a much smaller percentage of 'informed' (thus less 'affected') listeners.

 

It’s worthwhile to mention classical music’s brightest star remains 18 years old until March 20th 2023. Yunchan Lim is drawing in new listeners like moths to a 🔥 and has international appeal