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the shoulds

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#1 · (Edited)
What are "the shoulds" for classical music listeners?

(These "shoulds" are of course meant as guides to polite social behavior, not equivalent to the Terms of Service of this site, which have the internet's equivalent to the force of law. These are merely my suggestions, and I have absolutely no affiliation with the moderators of this site!)

For example, I propose:

1. A classical music listener should be familiar, or be becoming familiar ASAFP, with the instruments used in classical music, especially the most common ones. It is not too much to ask every listener to be able to identify each instrument based on hearing a few seconds of typical playing. Failure to do so will result in scorn from certain other classical music listeners.

2. A classical music listener should be familiar, or be becoming familiar ASAFP, with the great works (in all forms: symphonies, concertos, sonatas, operas, masses, whatever) of the great composers, as defined by tradition and expert near-consensus, of every era from medieval to contemporary. Perhaps it is too much to ask every listener to be able to identify any of these works from hearing any particular minute or so of the music, but that would nevertheless be ideal. Failure to do so will result in scorn from certain other classical music listeners.

3. To clarify: a classical music listener should be familiar, or be becoming familiar ASAFP, with the great works of the great composers, as defined by tradition and expert near-consensus, including those of the past half century, particularly composers who are still living. Failure to do so will result in scorn from certain other classical music listeners. Listeners can safely neglect the Medieval and Renaissance periods, but listeners familiar with the great works of those periods will be rewarded with special respect by certain other classical music listeners.

4. A classical music listener, regardless of his or her personal tastes or preferences, should express unqualified respect for the great works of the great composers of all eras (as defined of course by tradition and expert near-consensus), unless he or she is truly a world-class expert capable of analyzing and evaluating such works in their historical and theoretical contexts. Perhaps it is too much to ask every listener to understand and enjoy all those works, but at least they should refrain from critical comment if they don't. Anyone speaking about classical music should evince a deference proportional to the speaker's ignorance. Failure to do so will result in scorn from certain other classical music listeners.

5. Similarly, a classical music listener, regardless of his or her personal tastes or preferences, should NOT express too much respect for certain works which have been deemed unworthy of such respect by by tradition and expert near-consensus - light music, pops, popera, crossover, and the like - unless he or she is truly a world-class expert capable of analyzing and evaluating such works in their historical and theoretical contexts. Perhaps it is too much to ask every listener NOT to enjoy all those works, but at least they should refrain from effusive praise if they do. Not doing so will result in scorn from certain other classical music listeners.

6. A classical music listener should also be familiar, or be becoming familiar ASAP, with a number of rather less great composers, "off the beaten path" music of any era, and should express some enthusiasm for some of those works. However, unless he or she is truly a world-class expert capable of analyzing and evaluating such works in their historical and theoretical contexts, the listener should contain his or or enthusiasm for such composers within the limits stated in other "shoulds." Failure to do so will result in scorn from certain other classical music listeners.

7. A classical music listener should attend live music performances regularly. Failure to do so will result in scorn from certain other classical music listeners. Failure to do so for financial reasons will result in a mercifully unspoken excommunication from the community of classical music listeners. Conversely, attendance at particularly famous venues will result in greater respect from certain other classical music listeners. Personal relationships with famous composers or performers will also result in greater respect from certain other classical music listeners. Name-dropping, however, must be done very sensitively: no one, even a classical music listener, likes boasting.

8. A classical music listener should be familiar, or be becoming familiar ASAP, with famous recordings of the works included above, including both early recordings and very recent recordings, from major labels and the so-called "indie" labels of classical music. Failure to do so will result in scorn from certain other classical music listeners.

9. A classical music listener should be familiar, or be becoming familiar ASAP, with the basic historical context of those compositions and recordings, and with some of the biographical details of the most famous composers and performers. Failure to do so will result in scorn from certain other classical music listeners. However, such information should not be confused with the kind of theoretical and historical analysis required to permit one to express critical opinions of the great works of the great composers.

10. A classical music listener should also be familiar, or be becoming familiar ASAP, with the proper pronunciation of the names of the famous works, famous composers, and famous performers. Failure to do so will result in scorn from certain other classical music listeners.

11. A classical music listener should have at least some respect and familiarity with the most widely esteemed music of other traditions, especially jazz, Indian classical music, and gamelan. Failure to do so will result in scorn from certain other classical music listeners.

12. A classical music listener (like fans of any art) should never admit to following the suggestions of tradition or expert consensus. He or she must always, explicitly, and forcefully deny the conformity and obedience required by these "shoulds." He or she must always maintain the fiction, preferably with complete sincerity, that his or her "tastes" correspond so nearly to tradition and expert consensus either by mere coincidence or, better, by virtue of his or her knowledge no nearly corresponding to that of tradition and experts. Failure to do so will result in scorn from certain other classical music listeners.

That's a good rough draft. But I assume I've overlooked something, or misunderstood something, so I have no doubt that with your input improvements can be made.

Afterword: This thread has some similarity to THE RULES (a thread for fun). That thread, however, was meant in jest, and this one is serious. I know that we as a society are so unused to honest evaluation of such issues - tied in as they are to social status, perhaps the single greatest conversational taboo in our supposedly democratic cultures - that it is hard to believe anyone would seriously address them outside of academic contexts (in which violating conversational taboos is regarded as virtuous) or internal discussions of corporate or political marketing strategies (where nondisclosure agreements are ubiquitous). If these "shoulds" annoyed you, you apparently do not like having this taboo violated. Nevertheless, I am doing so because I believe that this could serve as a useful guide to which we can refer people whose violations offend us.

If you do not think these are actually the "shoulds," then please offer corrections. In fact, I sincerely hope we can discover and discuss the "shoulds" together.

If you do not think any "shoulds" actually exist, please note "should" #12, which I regard - and will continue to regard, unless you can offer an alternative, mutually exclusive, and convincing explanation of the behavior of people discussing classical music - as encompassing all "blanket denials" of the existence, or of knowledge of the existence, of any "shoulds."
 
#3 · (Edited)
All due respect to this list of well thought-out requirements of classical music knowledge.

I would say this list applies best to classical music students, not the universe of general listeners. Many listeners are actually turned off by perceived rules that in the end discourages them. Of course it's always good to know the background. But listening, per se, can simply be enjoyment of any classical music one might hear with no strings attached.
 
#5 ·
All due respect to this list of well thought-out requirements of classical music knowledge.

I would say this list applies best to classical music students, not the universe of general listeners. Many listeners are actually turned off by perceived rules that in the end discourages them. Of course it's always good to know the background. But listening, per se, can simply be enjoyment of any classical music one might hear with no strings attached.
Most of this post amounts to a denial that any shoulds apply to listeners, which I addressed in the OP. The part in bold belies that by admitting that these shoulds discourage listeners, and that does raise an interesting issue. I agree completely that the social dynamics I'm trying to enumerate turn many people off to classical music.

So my question would be, is that discouragement intentional or accidental?

I believe it's intentional.

We intend to communicate to less experienced or less committed listeners that they had better know their place in our implicit hierarchy of listeners - that is, to be clear, below us - and until they are more experienced and/or more committed we are not going to respect them very much. If they choose instead simply to give up, our judgment is only the more severe, and our satisfaction the more complete.
 
#6 · (Edited)
You have put in writing what many of us in the classical music listening community already subconsciously acknowledge. However, scorn is never a good thing if it discourages fledgling listeners from pursuing the discipline necessary for proper enjoyment of this milieu. If the words "genuine concern" were to be substituted for "scorn", I would more readily accept this sort of framework. However, human nature being what it is, it seems unlikely that concern is going to supplant scorn any time soon. The rules delineated above, though full of the probity that is the hallmark of our community, throw into full light the problems that we will have in engaging the interest of the portion of society receptive to this kind of music. Is it intentional? I think it is, and this makes me sad. Nice post.
 
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#16 ·
Yes, it is fatalistic.

I suspect that the "large gaps" in your listening are gaps from a fairly elite POV - you know Beethoven's fifth and Brahms's fourth symphony and Bach's Mass in B minor and so on, but you mean that you don't know something like, oh, maybe Schubert's D. 664 sonata or Rossini's string sonatas or Baroque zarzuelas.

I also suspect that you've usually acknowledged the large gaps and stated an aspiration to remedy them, and humility always preempts scorn.
 
#33 ·
I don't mind the word 'should' or 'must'. That's just semantics. I interpret that as just a strong way of conveying personal opinions. In fact I even like that and don't feel threatened by that at all.

What I don't like is that these shoulds are turned into a set of rules to subscribe and adhere to to become members of an elitist club. I have no problem with being elitist. It's the club-element I don't like. It reminds me of fascists, communists or Masonic Lodges or any other 'we'-group that sets itself apart as superhumans from the rest of the world. I don't need the rest of you to be a superhuman, ha ha! So should you.
 
#49 ·
So much here I wholeheartedly disagree with!

Here are mine:

You should listen to what you enjoy and enjoy what you listen to.
You should not listen to music simply for snob cachet.
You should develop your own tastes and should feel free to express your views.
You should explore music (and everything else! ).
You shouldn't set up barriers to people enjoying music (or anything else!). You shouldn't divide the world into true fans and the unwashed masses, or say that only true fans/listeners do this, that or t'other.
You should suggest music that you liked because you think other people will like it too. Hey, you like Beethoven? Awesome! Have you heard Mahler or Berlioz? They wrote some cool tunes. You might like them. Not "you should listen to Footmangler's rendition of the 5th, cos you're an inferior person if you haven't".
You should use guides as recommendations - - more like guidelines than actual rules.
 
#52 · (Edited)
What are "the shoulds" for classical music listeners?
Though I have no doubt that these "shoulds" exist in some form (personally I don't live by them), I think you're conflating too many sets of listeners to produce a monolith that doesn't actually exist.
For instance, #8 - I don't think there's a huge overlap between people who are interested in the "classic" recordings of the major labels and those who support the indies (obviously, there is an overlap, but it won't be anywhere close to 100% unless Gould, Callas et al are resurrected and start recording for Hyperion). And #11 - respect for jazz or Asian music? so soft racism is dead now?
Moreover, I suspect that the ground on which many of these "shoulds" stand is getting a little shakier by the year. People can come to classical music from so many different directions these days that it's harder to control who gets in - harder even to know who's in.
 
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#53 ·
Moreover, I suspect that the ground on which many of these "shoulds" stand is getting a little shakier by the year. People can come to classical music from so many different directions these days that it's harder to control who gets in - harder even to know who's in.
It's a club hardly worth joining! Would Groucho?

Perhaps if the ToS required a recent full length photo as part of our public profile? Or would that just open a new front for the scorn?
 
#56 · (Edited)
If one esteems highly the music of a composer generally thought to be 2nd tier or less, they should still always have a sense of the inferiority relative to the 1st tier greats. With ranking in general, you are obliged to scorn it heavily in general because we are not sport's fans, but please remember that Richard Strauss is at core empty and without substance relative to Mahler, Bach is infinitely superior to Handel, Shostakovich is a 2nd rater looming far too large in the classical music scene, and Cage is greater. Your idiosyncratic personal opinions only have the possibility of value in ranking when you are talking of 20/21st century composers.
 
#70 ·
we are not sport's fans
Oh, this reminds me of one that should go in:
Classical music is serious and profound, it is not mere entertainment. OK, yes, you are allowed to merely enjoy yourself at times, but the non-intellectual pleasure you get should pertain to higher and nobler emotions. Thus: a piece may be joyful but not fun; beautiful but not pretty.
 
#58 · (Edited)
Science, I "should" imagine you are having a laugh. :)

In fact, should this thread not have started on April 1st?
 
#63 ·
Science is not seeking to impose these shoulds on anyone and does not believe himself to be in charge of anything. He is codifying the unwritten standards he believes to be operating in the interactions on TC and other fora whether anyone wishes to acknowledge them or not. Failing to attain any of them can result in the unleashing of scorn by other members. Note, my interpretation of Science's intentions has no Scientific basis and has not been endorsed by Science or his representatives.
 
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