[Barbebleu]

Start at Parsifal and work your way backwards.

Ooh, you are awful, but I like you!

 

[Guest]

I would like to echo the suggestions made by several others that the best way to proceed for a newcomer is by way of "highlight" discs. I first tried it the "hard" way by listening through the entire operas, but got fed up very quickly.

I recently revamped my entire Wagner "highlights" material, and have acquired what I consider to be a decent collection in terms of length and quality. In total it amounts to some 10 hrs 40 mins playing time:

1. Rienzi: Overture plus 'Allmacht'ger Vater', (Rienzi's Prayer) (from Act 5) - Sawallisch/Chor der Bayerischen Staatsoper, Bayerisches Staatsorchester
2. Der Fliegende Holländer (highlights) - Levine/Metropolitan Opera
3. Tannhäuser (highlights) - Sinopoli/ Royal Opera House Covent Garden
4. Lohengrin - Abbado/Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra
*5. Tristan und Isolde - Pappano/Royal Opera House Covent Garden
6. Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg (highlights) - Jochum/Orchester der Deutschen Oper Berlin
7-10. The Ring (separate highlight CDs for each of the 4 operas) - Janowski/Staatskapelle Dresden
11. Parsifal - Barenboim/Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra

What I like especially is that these versions are well recorded with little if any background noise of any sort.

* In the case of Tristan, I think what I did was to select tracks 1, 5, 9, 10, 12, 19, 27, 33 from the whole CD set as I couldn't find a suitable highlights disc that matched the quality of the Pappano recording.

 

[Blancrocher]

I'd recommend The Ring on DVD (Boulez is my favorite, but you might sample the competition on Youtube before buying)...it'll help you get the story in your head before turning to recordings, and by viewing the whole "epic" cycle you won't miss out on the amazing immersive quality of Wagner's music.

 

[OperaChic]

The time and commitment one needs to give in order to come to enjoy Wagner's immense ouvere scares many people off I imagine. I would simply say: do not be intimidated by Wagner. Before even starting the undertaking you should know that its going to take an investment on your part. But luckily Wagner is an artist who will repay your investement tenfold.

Sure, you can start by listening to the overtures and orchestral excerpts, and they contain very appealing music that is easy to like. But you aren't really engaging with Wagner's art or realzing its full potential anymore than you would be with Beethoven's if you simply listened to a 10 minute "highlight" disc of his 9th symphony. The key to approaching Wagner is to realize that he is a man of the theater, and his imagination thrived on being able to translate powerful visuals and the essence of a dramatic situation into music. This was his greatest genius, so unless you are totally opposed to engaging with drama by way of music, or get very little out of musical theater, there's no reason why you shouldn't jump right in and experience the operas in their entirety.

 

[starthrower]

Start at Parsifal and work your way backwards.

I'm still a newbie, but I took to Parsifal immediately from a purely musical aspect. I bought the cheap Kegel live recording re-issued on Brilliant Classics and I love it. It's a high quality recording made in 1975. For under ten dollars it's a steal.

 

[Mandryka]

After a dozen years I'm finally thinking about "tackling" Wagner. The reason I phrase it that way is that I know it's going to take some time to go through his repertoire and truly appreciate it.

Are there any recordings/pieces that would be a good place to get my feet wet with Wagner?

Don't start by just buying a Ring and working your way through, because the first opera in the Ring isn't so special, it could put you off exploring the rest! Siegfried could be a great place to start, because it's an opera in two halves. Acts 1 and 2 have excellent music in the "middle" Wagner style, and in Act 3 Wagner starts to write in his last, greatest, most cosmic style and it's very special, it's what makes Wagner a great great composer. Also Siegfried is very entertaining, and funny even, it's like an operatic fairy tale.

Siegfried, that's the best place to start.

 

[OperaChic]

Don't start by just buying a Ring and working your way through, because the first opera in the Ring isn't so special, it could put you off exploring the rest! Siegfried could be a great place to start, because it's an opera in two halves. Acts 1 and 2 have excellent music in the "middle" Wagner style, and in Act 3 Wagner starts to write in his last, greatest, most cosmic style and it's very special, it's what makes Wagner a great great composer. Also Siegfried is very entertaining, and funny even, it's like an operatic fairy tale.

Siegfried, that's the best place to start.

Well, hold on. A newcomer to the Ring should understand that the cycle is one continuous narrative, and that there are very good reasons for starting at the beginnig with Das Rheingold. The resonance of Wagner's musical score throughout the four operas builds as he is able to transform musical motifs from the beginning of the cycle all the way through the end. As he recalls key moments musically, we as the audience recall those moments dramatically, and in this way he is able to trancend time and make the past present in our minds.

Everyone has their favorite opera from the Ring -- mine is the finale, Gotterdammerung -- but Rheingold is extraordinary in its own right. From the very opening that is a potent realization in sound of emergence and becoming as a process, the opera surges with a special vitality and harnessed energy.

 

[Mandryka]

But the whole story so far is recapped in Siegfried!

I agree with you that the overture of Rheingold is nice, shame about the rest.

 

[OperaChic]

But the whole story so far is recapped in Siegfried!

That's a crude overstatement. When The Wanderer and Mime engage in their wisdom contest they recap some basic plot points, but the scene serves a purpose that is removed from "summarizing" the story for the audience. In other words the dialogue is not meant to get the audience caught up with the action, and leaves out so much of what has transpired in the two previous operas that a person would have no real idea about any of the implications of the drama contained in Siegfried and what he represents in the cycle moving forward.

I agree with you that the overture of Rheingold is nice, shame about the rest.

There's nothing shameful about the rest of the opera. I've talked to many who claim it is their favorite, and it does have a quicksilver quality and ironic bite about it that is absolutely unique among Wagner's operas.

 

[Woodduck]

Start at Parsifal and work your way backwards.

If you want to dive into Parsifal - an adventure that'll be right for some and wrong for others - DO NOT begin by watching this or any other video. Two reasons:

1.) Most stage directors today are obsessed with presenting their own commentaries on Wagner rather than presenting his stories as he instructed, and the results are always in some way contrary to the spirit and meaning of the work.

2.) Wagner's music is so evocative that the images it will summon for an imaginative listener surpass any possible staging.

After you've experienced the music sufficiently, you can look at various productions and judge for yourself how well they represent the opera.

As for recordings, the ones which I find best capture the mystery and profundity of the work are the live Bayreuth performances under Knappertsbusch, recorded between 1951 and 1964. Just march right out and buy the only one recorded in stereo, the 1962 performance on Philips, for the full Parsifal experience. https://www.amazon.com/Parsifal-Ric...rsifal+knappertsbusch&qid=1558973047&s=music&sprefix=parsifal+kn,aps,218&sr=1-1 If you're allergic to live recordings (you'll have to tolerate a few audience noises as they settle in during the Knappertsbusch), the best version is probably the Kubelik, with honorable mention going to Barenboim, Solti and Karajan. I can't recommend the Boulez or the inexpensive Kegel; both have casting weaknesses and both indulge in some overly fast tempos. If you're in a hurry, Parsifal is not for you.

 

[infracave]

Might be a stupid question but how can non-german speakers best enjoy wagner ?

Do you have some kind of double subtitles, one in german and one in english ?
I mean, the libretto ought to be important, as Wagner himself wrote it.

 

[Woodduck]

Might be a stupid question but how can non-german speakers best enjoy wagner ?

Do you have some kind of double subtitles, one in german and one in english ?
I mean, the libretto ought to be important, as Wagner himself wrote it.

Recordings generally come with side-by-side German/English librettos, you can find these online as well, and some videos have subtitles.

 

[annaw]

Recordings generally come with side-by-side German/English librettos, you can find these online as well, and some videos have subtitles.

In addition, what really helped me to understand the Ring was Boulez with English subtitles (though I had listened to the Ring already before so I had an understanding of the music in general). Really helps to make connections between the libretto and the music.

 

[Mandryka]

Might be a stupid question but how can non-german speakers best enjoy wagner ?

Do you have some kind of double subtitles, one in german and one in english ?
I mean, the libretto ought to be important, as Wagner himself wrote it.

You follow the libretto as it's being sung. It's very easy to do. The second time you listen you need to follow much less because so much of the story is in your head, you know what they're singing about more or less. Subsequent times even less so.

Following the libretto the first time may appear daunting if you've never done it, all I can say is that, in my case, it was absolutely fine, a pleasure in fact.

 

[DavidA]

That's a crude overstatement. When The Wanderer and Mime engage in their wisdom contest they recap some basic plot points, but the scene serves a purpose that is removed from "summarizing" the story for the audience. In other words the dialogue is not meant to get the audience caught up with the action, and leaves out so much of what has transpired in the two previous operas that a person would have no real idea about any of the implications of the drama contained in Siegfried and what he represents in the cycle moving forward.

There's nothing shameful about the rest of the opera. I've talked to many who claim it is their favorite, and it does have a quicksilver quality and ironic bite about it that is absolutely unique among Wagner's operas.

Action? What action? The scene between Mime and the Wanderer is an absolute pain and should have been removed. The whole of the first two acts of Siegfried is male (wood bird apart) and the squawking Mime and the Wanderer's bass tones set the teeth of edge much of the time in their scene together. Pity as the prelude is absolutely superb but what follows is Siegfried's bullying of Mime (pretty repugnant even if the dwarf is repugnant) and then the Wasnderer scene which holds up the action. Go straight into the forging scene for a bit of excitement for goodness sake! Someone is asking where to start not how to be put off!

 

[annaw]

Action? What action? The scene between Mime and the Wanderer is an absolute pain and should have been removed. The whole of the first two acts of Siegfried is male (wood bird apart) and the squawking Mime and the Wanderer's bass tones set the teeth of edge much of the time in their scene together. Pity as the prelude is absolutely superb but what follows is Siegfried's bullying of Mime (pretty repugnant even if the dwarf is repugnant) and then the Wasnderer scene which holds up the action. Go straight into the forging scene for a bit of excitement for goodness sake!

Personal preferences I suppose... I love the Wanderer/Mime 'wisdom contest'!!

 

[Woodduck]

Action? What action? The scene between Mime and the Wanderer is an absolute pain and should have been removed. The whole of the first two acts of Siegfried is male (wood bird apart) and the squawking Mime and the Wanderer's bass tones set the teeth of edge much of the time in their scene together. Pity as the prelude is absolutely superb but what follows is Siegfried's bullying of Mime (pretty repugnant even if the dwarf is repugnant) and then the Wasnderer scene which holds up the action. Go straight into the forging scene for a bit of excitement for goodness sake! Someone is asking where to start not how to be put off!

This person wants to know how to get into Wagner, and your idea of helping him is to disparage Wagner's work and prove your inability either to appreciate it or to respect those who can.

 

[OperaChic]

Action? What action? The scene between Mime and the Wanderer is an absolute pain and should have been removed. The whole of the first two acts of Siegfried is male (wood bird apart) and the squawking Mime and the Wanderer's bass tones set the teeth of edge much of the time in their scene together. Pity as the prelude is absolutely superb but what follows is Siegfried's bullying of Mime (pretty repugnant even if the dwarf is repugnant) and then the Wasnderer scene which holds up the action. Go straight into the forging scene for a bit of excitement for goodness sake! Someone is asking where to start not how to be put off!

You completely misread my comment. I was not claiming the Mime/Wanderer scene was full of action, but was referring to the action (the dramatic occurences seen and heard) during the previous two operas. But I'm pretty sure you just wanted an excuse to jump in with one of your notorious anti-Wagner diatribes. Mission accomplished.

 

[mbhaub]

Might be a stupid question but how can non-german speakers best enjoy wagner ?

Do you have some kind of double subtitles, one in german and one in english ?
I mean, the libretto ought to be important, as Wagner himself wrote it.

Purists will hate this, but Sir Reginald Goodall made quite a career of conducting the operas in English. His Ring is excellent musically and nothing to be ashamed of. There are two catches: sometimes the singers' diction isn't as good as you would hope and it's hard to understand. The other is that you can understand it and sometimes English translations of German seem silly, trite and odd.

Then there's the only way to really, truly absorb the music - not pay any attention to the words in a printed libretto or in subtitles. When you get to know an opera well enough, you no longer need those crutches. Reading, and that means eyes are active, uses a lot of brain power, and the timesharing with the ears means you can't really just listen. Granted, knowing something like the Ring so well is no small task, but give it time.

 

[Itullian]

I love Siegfried. It's the Ring opera I listen to the most.
The music is magnificent.