Is There An Opera You Changed Your MInd About?

1290 Views 42 Replies 16 Participants Last post by Algaer, 4 mo ago

Seattleoperafan

Discussion Starter · 4 mo ago (Edited)

I saw Rigoletto 20 years ago before I was into men's voices and was sort of ho hum about it even though the singers were fine. I always liked Caro Nome but that was about it. I was given a lp boxed set a year ago and it sort of languished at the back of the pile until I got my new turntable and decided to try it. I am glad I waited as doing the contests has made me appreciate male voices so much more. Now I really love Rigoletto ( I have the one with the gorgeous voiced Milnes, Pavarotti and Sutherland). Not just the singing but the orchestration is so very beautiful. The story doesn't appeal to me so much but the music is so gorgeous it definitely has become a favorite of mine. The weaving over the voices in the first scene is exquisite and exciting and that duet between father and daughter is so gloriously beautiful! It also helped a lot that I have started following along with a libretto of late when I listened to music since I have them with lp sets. Have you changed your mind about an opera over the years?

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21 - 40 of 43 Posts

Lisztianwagner

· #21 · 4 mo ago

Verdi's Otello. The first time I listened to this opera, I found it too melodramatic, heavy and artificial, beautiful appearance, but with very little substance; after some years and more musical experience, although I'm still not mad about Otello, now I appreciate it as a very fine and interesting work; the closed forms are less and less recognizable and predictable, because of textures in continuous evolution, more similar to Wagner's musikdramas.

nina foresti

· #22 · 4 mo ago

philpam1 said:
First of all, atonal music is an acquired taste for most people, including me, and some people never acquire it. There's no shame in that. It's a style that's had its day, or should have. Second, if there's an opera where you need to follow the text, whether it's from a printed libretto or in a video it's Wozzeck. As a matter of fact I think it applies to most post-Wagnerian "through-composed" "endless melody": or whatever-you- want-to-call-them operas generally. It's much easier to enjoy the traditional numbers-operas just for the music although you still lose a lot without knowing the text.

QUOTE}
I never look at texts and really don't need to in order to understand what's going on because the subtitles are there to help me if needed.

BBSVK

· #23 · 4 mo ago (Edited)

Seattleoperafan said:
I used to be a major major Norma fanatic. Ponselle in the whole first scene for Norma is like one of my two or three favorite recordings and I like the story better than any other opera story by far. But as I have aged I actually think I like the music for Bellini's I Puritani more even thought the story not so much. The tenor has much better music to sing and this is one of my ultimate opera arias ever especially with the quartet singing with the soprano:

Bellini's Il Pirata is kinda stupid but that last cabelleta is so amazing but it needs a really big voice like Callas or Eaglen to make it come to life.

I Puritani are nice until Elvira goes crazy. After that the plot goes so downhill for me, that it repelled me from listening again. But Suthetland sounds great in this aria, it deserves another chance from me.

The plot of il Pirata is not so stupid for me, because in my head I blend it with the original play by Maturin, I looked it up. There is sex, yay, and it also makes sense, why Imogene feels so guilty. On the other hand, I am thankful to Felice Romani for sparing the life of the child. (OK, it wasn't Romani, but never mind).

And, ehm, as I am now living a content and mildly boring life of the mother of the two, I fit the stupid things I did in my past to Bellini's operas. I had a long distance relationship, which kept haunting me after it was kind of passe, and there was a recurring dream, that the object is in Bratislava and I did not know about it. So I can relate to Imogene, dreaming about Gualtiero just the previous night, before the storm brings him back to her.

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Josquin13

· #24 · 4 mo ago

No, there isn't. Every opera that I've ever liked, I liked right away. But there is a composer that I changed my mind about, due to an encounter with one of his operas, & that would be Camille Saint-Saens: whose music I was never overly crazy about, despite finding it well crafted & reasonably liking The Carnival of Animals & his Symphony No. 3. However, when I first heard Saint-Saens' opera Samson et Delila, I realized that I had underestimated him. It's wonderful music.

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BBSVK

· #25 · 4 mo ago

Woodduck said:
It's usually gone the other way with me. In my years of discovering opera I liked almost everything. Now I'm more selective. I've also run hot and cold with certain works or composers. One opera I didn't care for at first but like very much now is Puccini's Il Tabarro. On the other hand, I wouldn't care much if I never heard Boheme, Tosca or Butterfly again, though I think they're masterpieces and am happy to hear really great singing in any of them. I prefer Puccini's more acerbic, modern-sounding works, and am annoyed by operas (not only Puccini's) that wallow pathetically in the pointless and irredeemable pain of young female victims. I think it was the playwright Sardou, author of Tosca (the play), who offered a formula for theatrical success: "Torture the woman." Opera is full of suffering characters, but I don't like to feel that the composer enjoys it too much, or expects me to.

I slightly avoid Puccini, also in the contests, but it is not about the plots. Some say, verismo killed bel canto, so it is my protest against verismo

! But sometimes I cannot resist anyway, for instance if the contest has Tebaldi or Norena in it ;-) . Or if the operas are played less frequently.

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BBSVK

· #26 · 4 mo ago (Edited)

ninaforesti said:
...
But an epihany took place one day and suddenly, thinking about it rather rationally, I decided there is a good case to be made for a mentally tormented Azucena throwing the wrong baby in the fire. It could happen.

Absolutely ! If you can forget your cell phone in a taxi cab (as I sometimes do), you can also throw the wrong baby inton the fire ! People just don't throw babies into the fire often enough to realize, how likely the mistake is. But I, for one, never underestimate the human capability to botch something.

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Woodduck

· #27 · 4 mo ago

BBSVK said:
Absolutely ! If you can forget your cell phone in a taxi cab (as I sometimes do), you can also throw the wrong baby inton the fire ! People just don't throw babies into the fire often enough to realize, how likely the mistake is. But I, for once, never underestimate the human capability to botch something.

I have no doubt that someone, somewhere, has thrown the wrong baby into the fire. The real question is: has anyone ever thrown the right baby into the fire?

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Seattleoperafan

Discussion Starter · #28 · 4 mo ago

BBSVK said:
I Puritani are nice until Elvira goes crazy. After that the plot goes so downhill for me, that it repelled me from listening again. But Suthetland sounds great in this aria, it deserves another chance from me.

The plot of il Pirata is not so stupid for me, because in my head I blend it with the original play by Maturin, I looked it up. There is sex, yay, and it also makes sense, why Imogene feels so guilty. On the other hand, I am thankful to Felice Romani for sparing the life of the child. (OK, it wasn't Romani, but never mind).

And, ehm, as I am now living a content and mildly boring life of the mother of the two, I fit the stupid things I did in my past to Bellini's operas. I had a long distance relationship, which kept haunting me after it was kind of passe, and there was a recurring dream, that the object is in Bratislava and I did not know about it. So I can relate to Imogene, dreaming about Gualtiero just the previous night, before the storm brings him back to her.

Sutherland and Callas are both beyond fantastic in this aria. You are very amusing.

philpam1

· #29 · 4 mo ago

Seattleoperafan said:
I used to be a major major Norma fanatic. Ponselle in the whole first scene for Norma is like one of my two or three favorite recordings and I like the story better than any other opera story by far. But as I have aged I actually think I like the music for Bellini's I Puritani more even thought the story not so much. The tenor has much better music to sing and this is one of my ultimate opera arias ever especially with the quartet singing with the soprano:

Bellini's Il Pirata is kinda stupid but that last cabelleta is so amazing but it needs a really big voice like Callas or Eaglen to make it come to life.

I didn't know Ponselle did the whole first scene of Norma! Do you know where I can find it? I do have a recording of her doing Casta Diva. Or is that the one you meant?

I love I puritani. I think I like it better than Norma. A new recording came out recently conducted by Constantine Orbelian. It starred Sarah Coburn and Lawrence Brownlee. It received three rave reviews in Fanfare. I'll add my rave. I have the Bonynge and Serafin recordings. I prefer Callas to Sutherland (big surprise) but that recording is badly cut, especially in the third act. The new one is uncut. I thought Coburn was marvelous.

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Seattleoperafan

Discussion Starter · #30 · 4 mo ago

philpam1 said:
I didn't know Ponselle did the whole first scene of Norma! Do you know where I can find it? I do have a recording of her doing Casta Diva. Or is that the one you meant?

I love I puritani. I think I like it better than Norma. A new recording came out recently conducted by Constantine Orbelian. It starred Sarah Coburn and Lawrence Brownlee. It received three rave reviews in Fanfare. I'll add my rave. I have the Bonynge and Serafin recordings. I prefer Callas to Sutherland (big surprise) but that recording is badly cut, especially in the third act. The new one is uncut. I thought Coburn was marvelous.

Nobody on this forum liked Sarah Coburn and she was said to sound faulty and second rate, but I loved her in Seattle and Seattle LOVED her. She has ENORMOUS notes above the staff. She couldn't sing Salome, but above C her voice is huge!!!! She has sung here many time.
There are some cuts but most of the first scene is there.
Ponselle's recitative is soooooooooo powerful!!!!!! This is payback for steering me to the Bohm

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Becca

· #31 · 4 mo ago

I'm with Woodduck, there are operas that I used to enjoy but not for many years ... almost all Verdi is in that category. When it comes to Puccini I usually avoid the last acts.

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BBSVK

· #32 · 4 mo ago (Edited)

Seattleoperafan said:
Sutherland and Callas are both beyond fantastic in this aria. You are very amusing.

I try, but this time it wasn't intentional. I was deadly serious about Imogene.

To give you a real joke as a replacement, I offer this meme:

Tool Rectangle Compact cassette Musical instrument accessory Triangle

See less See more

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philpam1

· #33 · 4 mo ago

Seattleoperafan said:
Nobody on this forum liked Sarah Coburn and she was said to sound faulty and second rate, but I loved her in Seattle and Seattle LOVED her. She has ENORMOUS notes above the staff. She couldn't sing Salome, but above C her voice is huge!!!! She has sung here many time.
There are some cuts but most of the first scene is there.
Ponselle's recitative is soooooooooo powerful!!!!!! This is payback for steering me to the Bohm

I see people in Seattle have good taste. I spent a few days there once and liked it. The view from the air is stunning. I advised a friend who was flying there to get a window seat.

I'm afraid this is the same excerpt I have on CD. Thanks anyway. She doesn't seem to have recorded much. I just bought a Met performance of La Traviata she was in. I believe it's one of only two complete operas with her that was recorded. The sound was not only poor but exceptionally so and I knew it when I bought it. It provides limited enjoyment but it does confirm her greatness in a way that mere excerpts don't. It's a shame she couldn't stick around for a few more years. There might have been a few decent sounding live recordings. That recording is a broadcast and during intermissions there were some segments that were recorded with Geraldine Farrar. She actually sang a little bit from the opera. She was retired at the time but her voice still sounded beautiful. I'd never heard her before.

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Kjetil Heggelund

· #34 · 4 mo ago

There was an opera that my wife changed my mind about. A modern one by Gisle Kverndokk "Den fjerde nattevakt" (The 4th night watch). I liked it and she hated it, so we left at intermission.

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ScottK

· #35 · 4 mo ago

Seattleoperafan said:
I saw Rigoletto 20 years ago before I was into men's voices and was sort of ho hum about it even though the singers were fine. I always liked Caro Nome but that was about it. I was given a lp boxed set a year ago and it sort of languished at the back of the pile until I got my new turntable and decided to try it. I am glad I waited as doing the contests has made me appreciate male voices so much more. Now I really love Rigoletto ( I have the one with the gorgeous voiced Milnes, Pavarotti and Sutherland). Not just the singing but the orchestration is so very beautiful. The story doesn't appeal to me so much but the music is so gorgeous it definitely has become a favorite of mine. The weaving over the voices in the first scene is exquisite and exciting and that duet between father and daughter is so gloriously beautiful! It also helped a lot that I have started following along with a libretto of late when I listened to music since I have them with lp sets. Have you changed your mind about an opera over the years?

Glad you found Rigoletto John! Our love of operas doesn't always stay the same across our lives as this thread you started makes clear. But if there were a way of tallying my affection for my earliest beloved operas, and somehow scoring how well that affection has held up through the years, Rigoletto would be close to my very top. Been tough in recent years because there's no one to sing the role brilliantly. I hope we get one more great Rigoletto before I'm done. And I hope you'll stay with the story of the opera and see if it opens to you a little more. That's never a guarantee, we each respond to our own things. But I've always found the story of this fellow who had been dealt such a crummy hand in life, and in many ways made it worse for himself, but had the blessing of this wife and daughter - I assume the duet that moved you so was Ah deh non parlar...just heartbreakingly beautiful - and then to lose them...it touches me genuinely.

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ScottK

· #36 · 4 mo ago

My biggest recent change happened just this year with the help of this forum...Peter Grimes! Watching it years ago, upstairs, without any particular viewpoint (not something I feel a work of art requires before starting, but in this case I was much more fortunate when I had one) without responding to the Grimes himself, I was left pretty cold the first time. After I solicited and received a good deal of heartfelt and insightful TC recommendations about perspectives on the piece, earlier this season I sat up close and witnessed, what I now have firmly established in my recollections as one of the great performances I've seen in a long opera going life by Allan Clayton as Grimes. I found the opera beautiful and wise in the saddest way. It quickly became part of my list of absolute favorites.

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ScottK

· #37 · 4 mo ago

BBSVK said:
Before I saw Rigoletto, I knew some numbers from there, but what really grabbed me at the live performance was the sexy deep voice of Maddalena. So, not the male voice ;-)

So BB...this would be a conversation in your house???....."...want to go see Rigoletto?.....all depends, who's singing Maddalena?".....

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Woodduck

· #38 · 4 mo ago

ScottK said:
Glad you found Rigoletto John! Our love of operas doesn't always stay the same across our lives as this thread you started makes clear. But if there were a way of tallying my affection for my earliest beloved operas, and somehow scoring how well that affection has held up through the years, Rigoletto would be close to my very top. Been tough in recent years because there's no one to sing the role brilliantly. I hope we get one more great Rigoletto before I'm done.

It's been my misfortune that an increasing appreciation of Verdi and his Italian predecessors Donizetti and Bellini has coincided with an increasing absence of people who can sing them as they need to be sung.

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ScottK

· #39 · 4 mo ago

Woodduck said:
It's been my misfortune that an increasing appreciation of Verdi and his Italian predecessors Donizetti and Bellini has coincided with an increasing absence of people who can sing them as they need to be sung.

Every year when the Met announces the next season, I'm simply scouring to see if Grigolo, Kaufman or Calleja is singing anything...only Calleja does regularly. It's not because I'm convinced they'll give me goosebumps. It's because I know that you have to get the performance to a certain level before you even have a chance!

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BBSVK

· #40 · 4 mo ago

ScottK said:
So BB...this would be a conversation in your house???....."...want to go see Rigoletto?.....all depends, who's singing Maddalena?".....

OK... maybe not. But it could happen with Pelleas et Melisande. It was the same mezzo or contraalto singer that fascinated me live. She even is on youtube, but she sounds terrible there, I am not linking her. As for listening to vinyls, nothing could prevent me from listening to that particular LP from the set, and to that side, which has Maddalena in it, over and over.

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