In my opinion Mozart was the greatest of all opera composer. His works breathe sheer musical genius with a melodic gift that is unsurpassed. However, the purpose of the thread is not to debate this but to comment on operas or parts of operas we particularly enjoy, together with notable recordings - audio and video - of his works. Please celebrate Wolfie the operatic genius!
DavidA
G
Brilliant idea for a thread!
Favourite act: Nozze act III (Crudel, Hai gia vinta la causa, Riconosci, Dove sono, Sull'aria)
Favourite Nozze recording: http://www.amazon.com/Mozart-Nozze-Figaro-Wolfgang-Amadeus/dp/B0000041OU (Solti, Te Kanawa, Ramey, Allen, Popp, von Stade) Despite this, my favourite Figaro may be Raimondi
Most underrated duet: Crudel
Most underrated opera: Seraglio - the singing is so challenging and the music among the most beautiful ever composed
Wolfie addiction shows no signs of abating!
Favourite act: Nozze act III (Crudel, Hai gia vinta la causa, Riconosci, Dove sono, Sull'aria)
Favourite Nozze recording: http://www.amazon.com/Mozart-Nozze-Figaro-Wolfgang-Amadeus/dp/B0000041OU (Solti, Te Kanawa, Ramey, Allen, Popp, von Stade) Despite this, my favourite Figaro may be Raimondi
Most underrated duet: Crudel
Most underrated opera: Seraglio - the singing is so challenging and the music among the most beautiful ever composed
Wolfie addiction shows no signs of abating!
I totally agree that Mozart was the greatest of opera composers.
He wrote some splendid arias but the aria is not my favourite element of opera (even less so the chorus). Mozart wrote the best ensemble elements ( duets, trios, quartets, quintets, sextets ...) that have ever been heard. Probably the closest another composer has come is the third act quartet in Rigoletto. Unlike the aria these ensemble elements do move the action forward (like recitative) and the genius of Mozart was his ability to have several singers, or groups of singers, express differing emotions simultaneously and each heard and understood separately by the audience.
Mozart also wrote the best overtures to his operas. Always a perfect length and a perfect setup for the delights to come.
He wrote some splendid arias but the aria is not my favourite element of opera (even less so the chorus). Mozart wrote the best ensemble elements ( duets, trios, quartets, quintets, sextets ...) that have ever been heard. Probably the closest another composer has come is the third act quartet in Rigoletto. Unlike the aria these ensemble elements do move the action forward (like recitative) and the genius of Mozart was his ability to have several singers, or groups of singers, express differing emotions simultaneously and each heard and understood separately by the audience.
Mozart also wrote the best overtures to his operas. Always a perfect length and a perfect setup for the delights to come.
I know I said I wasn't talking to you again after your insult in another thread, but I can't hold a grudge. I simply have to agree. It's not just the big four or five or six or seven (depending on whether you include Abduction from the Seraglio and Idomeneo and Clemency of Titus) - the whole damn lot, even the juvenilia, are worth a listen at least once.
I've got the bicentennary set of DVDs, and I might listen to some with my eyes shut because the productions irritate me, but the music ranges from very good to entrancing.
I've got the bicentennary set of DVDs, and I might listen to some with my eyes shut because the productions irritate me, but the music ranges from very good to entrancing.
A favorite that always springs to mind is the duet Fra gli'amplessi from Cosi fan Tutte, especially in the Bohm recording with Schwarzkopf and Kraus, who make of it quite the erotic affair it should be.
Then there is the wonderful Soave sia il vento from the same opera.
Then there is the wonderful Soave sia il vento from the same opera.
Great! And what about this from Figaro!
Did any other composer spin such wondrous melodies? And the develop them with such skill to reflect the feelings of the character?
Did any other composer spin such wondrous melodies? And the develop them with such skill to reflect the feelings of the character?
Greg Mitchell beat me to it, but I even wrote about it on my blog (see below), my absolute highlight clearly Soave sia il vento.
http://musicophilesblog.com/2015/07/10/may-the-wind-be-gentle-nezet-seguins-cosi-fan-tutte/
http://musicophilesblog.com/2015/07/09/top-10-music-that-gives-me-goose-bumps/
But all other operas are equally brilliant. I'm a big big fan.
http://musicophilesblog.com/2015/07/10/may-the-wind-be-gentle-nezet-seguins-cosi-fan-tutte/
http://musicophilesblog.com/2015/07/09/top-10-music-that-gives-me-goose-bumps/
But all other operas are equally brilliant. I'm a big big fan.
Ok I have to admit, while I love Mozart's music in general, and his great piano concertos are some of my favorite works by any composer, a lot of his operas leave me somewhat cold. And that includes Don Giovanni. 
Maybe that has partly to do with the recitative that kind of drags on to me. At the end of the day yes they have some lovely arias and melodies, but I just don't find myself connecting with the stories and characters or finding them very exciting. Oh well. C'est la vie!
Maybe that has partly to do with the recitative that kind of drags on to me. At the end of the day yes they have some lovely arias and melodies, but I just don't find myself connecting with the stories and characters or finding them very exciting. Oh well. C'est la vie!
Just listening to the amazing Don Giovanni conducted by Karajan at Saltzburg in 1960. It is absolutely riveting with a cast that includes Schwartskopf , Proce, Waechter, etc.. Got it for about £4. The recording is reasonable mono. The performance absolutely whizzes along quite unlike Karajan's later studio effort. Really worth hearing.
It seems a constant on these threads that people complain about recitatives. This suggests to me that they are just listening mostly for the tunes (including harmonies etc) but in a way that would make absolutely no sense to Mozart. He wrote them as dramas, to be understood as stories that have a context. He is a genius at moving the story along in the ensembles, but the recitatives are still the main way and, as such, are essential. If listeners can't be bothered to follow the action, including the dialogue, then that's a matter for them - but just recognise that the inadequacy is yours, not Mozart's.
It's like trying to enjoy Shakespeare by listening only to the soliloquies and complaining about dialogue in between.
It's like trying to enjoy Shakespeare by listening only to the soliloquies and complaining about dialogue in between.
Mozart was such an incredible genius at writing recitatives. You only have to compare his own with Sussmyr's in Clemens da Tito to see just what he put into the drama. Sadly he never got round to writing his own for much of Tito.
I can't stand the recitatives. I know the story.
I skip them or program them out.
Even Mozart realized they are a drag.
That's why he was so proud of the last 20 mins. of Act 2 of Figaro.
I skip them or program them out.
Even Mozart realized they are a drag.
That's why he was so proud of the last 20 mins. of Act 2 of Figaro.
I feel that Mozart did as good a job with recitative secco (continuo only, no orchestra) as anyone. No one expected those passages to be great music, most of the harmonic progressions were highly conventional (though Mozart could be predictably inventive in that respect), and the composer was doing his job if he kept things moving and enabled the singers to get the words out while they acted realistically onstage. Listening at home, I get impatient with it; in the theater, less so, but I prefer either through-composed dialogue or spoken dialogue - both of which can also be found in Mozart's operas, by the way. Just not often enough.
Once, when I was probably twelve or thirteen, I was watching a performance of Figaro on TV, and my father, who liked opera only when it consisted of tuneful arias sung by Caruso or Roberta Peters, irascibly yelled out "Where the hell are the arias in this opera? All I hear is jabbering!" I replied, meekly, "There will be some. You have to be patient." "Well I don't have that much patience!"
He could be rough on Wagner too ("What's that woman screaming about?" "It all sounds like funeral music!"). T'was a hard upbringing for a young operaphile.
Once, when I was probably twelve or thirteen, I was watching a performance of Figaro on TV, and my father, who liked opera only when it consisted of tuneful arias sung by Caruso or Roberta Peters, irascibly yelled out "Where the hell are the arias in this opera? All I hear is jabbering!" I replied, meekly, "There will be some. You have to be patient." "Well I don't have that much patience!"
He could be rough on Wagner too ("What's that woman screaming about?" "It all sounds like funeral music!"). T'was a hard upbringing for a young operaphile.
Lorenzo Da Ponte wrote a preface to the first published version of the libretto, in which he boldly claimed that he and Mozart had created a new form of music drama:
In spite ... of every effort ... to be brief, the opera will not be one of the shortest to have appeared on our stage, for which we hope sufficient excuse will be found in the variety of threads from which the action of this play [i.e. Beaumarchais's] is woven, the vastness and grandeur of the same, the multiplicity of the musical numbers that had to be made in order not to leave the actors too long unemployed, to diminish the vexation and monotony of long recitatives, and to express with varied colours the various emotions that occur, but above all in our desire to offer as it were a new kind of spectacle to a public of so refined a taste and understanding.[26]
In spite ... of every effort ... to be brief, the opera will not be one of the shortest to have appeared on our stage, for which we hope sufficient excuse will be found in the variety of threads from which the action of this play [i.e. Beaumarchais's] is woven, the vastness and grandeur of the same, the multiplicity of the musical numbers that had to be made in order not to leave the actors too long unemployed, to diminish the vexation and monotony of long recitatives, and to express with varied colours the various emotions that occur, but above all in our desire to offer as it were a new kind of spectacle to a public of so refined a taste and understanding.[26]
anyway back to the original discussion of Mozart opera appreciation: I love his operas. Hard to say which is my favorite. There is so much melody packed into Cosi, it is beautiful beyond belief. and while Don Carlos is currently my favorite opera, Mozart's Don held that distinction for a long time. Magic Flute I was lukewarm to at first but wove it's magic around me with successive listens. With regards to his other operas Il Re Pastore is beautiful.
Even before I became a true opera fan, I'd find myself turning to his opera music as most of my favorite music in his ouvre
Even before I became a true opera fan, I'd find myself turning to his opera music as most of my favorite music in his ouvre
Well my first listens through I listen to everything. I obviously can't know what I will or won't like until I've heard it. And sometimes after I've let a work "rest" I may revisit it down the line to determine if my opinion has changed
And I will say I do enjoy recitative more with the fortepiano than continuo or harpsichord.
My work commute is quite pleasant, I drive my own vehicle, lots of wooded area, pretty scenery. Winter drive isn't so pleasant with snow and ice, but I've about two months before I have that to contend with
And I will say I do enjoy recitative more with the fortepiano than continuo or harpsichord.
My work commute is quite pleasant, I drive my own vehicle, lots of wooded area, pretty scenery. Winter drive isn't so pleasant with snow and ice, but I've about two months before I have that to contend with
Well, please don't think I'm being critical because you clearly love music and take it seriously, and it's not for me to tell you how to listen. But don't you think you might find the recitative more relevant if you knew what it was saying and how it was advancing the story? And if that is true of the recitative, might it not also be true of the entire work - that you would get more out of it if you knew what was being said/sung? I think I've said all I can say on this subject now.
I know enough of the plot for it to serve my particular needs.As I know very little Italian listening to the complete piece will not achieve your recommended goal unless I'm reading libretto or watching video or live. Opera videos appeal to me only occasionally, though I will read libretto if the it interests me enough. I've not had opportunity to see opera live though I hope to do so down the line.
I feel my listening habits suit me well for the time being. They have evolved in the past and they may well do do in the future. I let this happen organically rather than trying to force appreciation which tends to have the opposite effect
I feel my listening habits suit me well for the time being. They have evolved in the past and they may well do do in the future. I let this happen organically rather than trying to force appreciation which tends to have the opposite effect
Judging by the plot for L'oca del Cairo I'm glad Mozart abandoned it - this could seriously have damaged his credibility:
'The title is usually translated as The Goose of Cairo but sometimes as The Cairo Goose. Don Pippo, a Spanish Marquess, keeps his only daughter Celidora locked up in his tower. She is betrothed to Count Lionetto, but her true love is Biondello, a wealthy gentleman. Biondello makes a bet with the Marquis that if he can rescue Celidora from the tower within a year he wins her hand in marriage. He succeeds by having himself smuggled into the tower garden inside a large mechanical goose.'
I know it's supposed to be a comedy but I can't think of a plot more unworthy of Mozart's talent. I'm guessing that he was desperate for a libretto at short notice hence the fact that he actually started writing the music - God knows how bad the ones he passed over must have been. :lol:
'The title is usually translated as The Goose of Cairo but sometimes as The Cairo Goose. Don Pippo, a Spanish Marquess, keeps his only daughter Celidora locked up in his tower. She is betrothed to Count Lionetto, but her true love is Biondello, a wealthy gentleman. Biondello makes a bet with the Marquis that if he can rescue Celidora from the tower within a year he wins her hand in marriage. He succeeds by having himself smuggled into the tower garden inside a large mechanical goose.'
I know it's supposed to be a comedy but I can't think of a plot more unworthy of Mozart's talent. I'm guessing that he was desperate for a libretto at short notice hence the fact that he actually started writing the music - God knows how bad the ones he passed over must have been. :lol:
I'm constantly amazed by the music that Mozart wrote for operas which were abandoned and not performed in his lifetime, like this one:
This glorious melody was never heard because Mozart abandoned this work to write Idomeneo instead. And in spite of all the operas he wrote after this, he never felt the need to reuse this melody, one many composers would have given their eye teeth for. Genius, pure genius.
This glorious melody was never heard because Mozart abandoned this work to write Idomeneo instead. And in spite of all the operas he wrote after this, he never felt the need to reuse this melody, one many composers would have given their eye teeth for. Genius, pure genius.
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