[Tsaraslondon]

I can't believe I never contributed to this thread.

Giulini remains my yardstick, but there is a recent release of a Bavarian Radio performance from 1981, which is absolutely terrific. I recommend it wholeheartedly.

 

[Garypaulsmith]

I've already made my choices in this work and have no interest in acquiring further recordings, including those of Gardiner or Pappano, and I'm not a general Gardiner fan, but I was struck by your rather confrontational, brief declamation. Gardiner got mostly good reviews, so your characterization of it as "without doubt the worst performance on record. Poorly recorded, badly sung and played" is obviously not universally shared.

Positive reviews/placings:

• Verdi Requiem. Rossini Stabat Mater
• Verdi: Requiem; Four Sacred Pieces
• The Almost Best Modern Verdi Requiem - ClassicsToday
• Serafin's Early Stereo Verdi Requiem - ClassicsToday
• VERDI Requiem Pappano 6989362 [MC]: Classical Music Reviews - February2010 MusicWeb-International
• Giuseppe Verdi – Requiem – Luba Orgonásová, Anne Sofie von Otter, Luca Canonici, Alastair Miles, Monteverdi Choir, Orchestre Révolutionnaire et Romantique, John Eliot Gardiner

Negative/mixed reviews:
- http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/p/phi42143a.php

These are the first two pages' results of reviews when googling - where there were no other mixed or negative reviews. Gardiner's European concert tour with the same orchestra and choir in 2018 seems to have gotten glowing reviews.

I have heard all the performances you have listed and more. I especially am fond of the Serafin recording. There is nothing wrong with being frank and to the point when stating an opinion on the performance of a given work. To think otherwise is to be in accord with the “snowflake “ mentality that shys away from honesty. So many of the glowing reviews you alluded to are from British publications which are notoriously biased and chauvinistic. That is a well known fact among musical professionals and aficionados. As, a retired musicologist and 25 plus years classical music Broadcaster I could have gone into great detail as to the flaws in the Gardiner performance. As I’ve said in the past I consider each recorded purchase as a ticket to a concert. Some turn out to be good, some bad and some just not noteworthy. The Pappano performance came as a spectacular surprise. It captured all that the Verdi score calls for( I usually listen to most performances with score in hand). There are many other fine performances; Gardner is just not one of them. The fact that you took umbrage from my review, which according to your comments, (from recordings) you have not heard says something about your lack of scholarly interest in the pursuit of great performances. Not wishing to hear the Pappano or the Gardiner indicates that you think nothing is to be gained from a new performance. Does this mean that you don’t attend live performances? After all what is to be gained using your rationale. As for me I shall continue to be open minded and receptive to live and recorded works. GPS

 

[joen_cph]

I have heard all the performances you have listed and more. I especially am fond of the Serafin recording. There is nothing wrong with being frank and to the point when stating an opinion on the performance of a given work. To think otherwise is to be in accord with the “snowflake “ mentality that shys away from honesty. So many of the glowing reviews you alluded to are from British publications which are notoriously biased and chauvinistic. That is a well known fact among musical professionals and aficionados. As, a retired musicologist and 25 plus years classical music Broadcaster I could have gone into great detail as to the flaws in the Gardiner performance. As I’ve said in the past I consider each recorded purchase as a ticket to a concert. Some turn out to be good, some bad and some just not noteworthy. The Pappano performance came as a spectacular surprise. It captured all that the Verdi score calls for( I usually listen to most performances with score in hand). There are many other fine performances; Gardner is just not one of them. The fact that you took umbrage from my review, which according to your comments, (from recordings) you have not heard says something about your lack of scholarly interest in the pursuit of great performances. Not wishing to hear the Pappano or the Gardiner indicates that you think nothing is to be gained from a new performance. Does this mean that you don’t attend live performances? After all what is to be gained using your rationale. As for me I shall continue to be open minded and receptive to live and recorded works. GPS

The idea was that you could expand the brief remarks on the Gardiner recording ("without doubt the worst performance on record. Poorly recorded, badly sung and played"), since they appeared to be either illogical or provocatively exaggerating, also in a 'scholarly' context, when the vast majority of professional reviews disagree with you, are positive and/or glowing - to the degree that it is simply difficult to find negative ones. So not a case of 'snowflake mentality', but a general wish for an explanation of what is meant by a brief, controversial statement that wasn't substantiated. It would, objectively speaking, also be fruitful for the content of the thread.

The amount of positive reviews of Gardiner's recording doesn't seem to be a case of British provincialism or chauvinism (also pointed to by me here through the years), since accessible reviews in other languages, such as for example German (the already given link to the Rondo Magazine, or the Swiss Neue Zürcher Zeitung) or Danish (DR Broadcast panel review, including a conductor - Gardiner's was selected as primary choice) are also very positive. Unfortunately, Google seems to increasingly focus on selecting sources in English, also when you search using other languages. Google even tends to just automatically translate search words like 'Rezension', 'anmeldelse' or 'rezensione' into 'review', and then just proceed to English language sources. So when searching, you have to combine with other words in the chosen language, such as Aufnahme, Auffuhrung, indspilning, grabacion, enregistrement, or whatever, and important media name websites, such as faz.de, nzz.ch, lefigaro.fr, abc.es, lastampa.it etc., and it requires a lot of work. I looked in vain for reviews in Italian available newspapers for example, which would be interesting to find; however, they might exist. But then, after all, English is also the chosen language of this forum.

There were at least 90 recordings of the Verdi Requiem prior to 2015 (as seen in the Wiki discography), which is another fact questioning your characterization above, if the characterization is to be taken literally. But I am so far satisfied with my collection (7.5 recordings, the partial one being a Fricsay, plus Rilling's fine 'Mass for Rossini') and decided to mostly move on, focusing on exploring other music and recordings further instead. This doesn't mean however, that I don't read about or do a bit of research at times, of ongoing stuff regarding the work.

 

[Garypaulsmith]

The idea was that you could expand the brief remarks on the Gardiner recording ("without doubt the worst performance on record. Poorly recorded, badly sung and played"), since they appeared to be either illogical or provocatively exaggerating, also in a 'scholarly' context, when the vast majority of professional reviews disagree with you, are positive and/or glowing - to the degree that it is simply difficult to find negative ones. So not a case of 'snowflake mentality', but a general wish for an explanation of what is meant by a brief, controversial statement that wasn't substantiated. It would, objectively speaking, also be fruitful for the content of the thread.

The amount of positive reviews of Gardiner's recording doesn't seem to be a case of British provincialism or chauvinism (also pointed to by me here through the years), since accessible reviews in other languages, such as for example German (the already given link to the Rondo Magazine, or the Swiss Neue Zürcher Zeitung) or Danish (DR Broadcast panel review, including a conductor - Gardiner's was selected as primary choice) are also very positive. Unfortunately, Google seems to increasingly focus on selecting sources in English, also when you search using other languages. Google even tends to just automatically translate search words like 'Rezension', 'anmeldelse' or 'rezensione' into 'review', and then just proceed to English language sources. So when searching, you have to combine with other words in the chosen language, such as Aufnahme, Auffuhrung, indspilning, grabacion, enregistrement, or whatever, and important media name websites, such as faz.de, nzz.ch, lefigaro.fr, abc.es, lastampa.it etc., and it requires a lot of work. I looked in vain for reviews in Italian available newspapers for example, which would be interesting to find; however, they might exist. But then, after all, English is also the chosen language of this forum.

There were at least 90 recordings of the Verdi Requiem prior to 2015 (as seen in the Wiki discography), which is another fact questioning your characterization above, if the characterization is to be taken literally. But I am so far satisfied with my collection (7.5 recordings, the partial one being a Fricsay, plus Rilling's fine 'Mass for Rossini') and decided to mostly move on, focusing on exploring other music and recordings further instead. This doesn't mean however, that I don't read about or do a bit of research at times, of ongoing stuff regarding the work.

Once again you haven’t listened to either of the two performances which I addressed in my review. You rely on others for your judgement. I gave a summary of my in-depth study of these performances using Verdi’s score, and could have gone into minutia in my summation. I chose not to in order to keep it brief. I suggest now and in the future you actually listen for yourself and point out the merits. Anything else is mere hearsay.
In terms of the recorded sound I’m listening with some of the finest equipment available. And it was clear to me the sound was compressed making for a muddy presentation. Your refusal to judge for yourself just makes for an uninformed conclusion. Gps

 

[joen_cph]

Once again you haven’t listened to either of the two performances which I addressed in my review. You rely on others for your judgement. I gave a summary of my in-depth study of these performances using Verdi’s score, and could have gone into minutia in my summation. I chose not to in order to keep it brief. I suggest now and in the future you actually listen for yourself and point out the merits. Anything else is mere hearsay.
In terms of the recorded sound I’m listening with some of the finest equipment available. And it was clear to me the sound was compressed making for a muddy presentation. Your refusal to judge for yourself just makes for an uninformed conclusion. Gps

Just to avoid any confusion, I double-checked, and your review and only lines in the thread concerning the said recording is what I quoted above, and unusual, to say the least.

 

[Tsaraslondon]

So many of the glowing reviews you alluded to are from British publications which are notoriously biased and chauvinistic. That is a well known fact among musical professionals and aficionados.

I'd say that what you say here is a matter of opinion, not fact.

 

[drjjpdc]

Just listened to Reiner /wiener P. (With L. Price). Pugg, Thanks for discovering this version to me. Sound Is incredible for a 1960 recording. The orchestra is superb. Reiner knows how to build an almost perfect masterpiece.

I agree with Satoru about L. Price.

But...

Listening to Verdi's requiem Is mainly emocional for me. I need to cry, to feel sadness, anger... And that's why I need Giulini. I enjoyed Reiner's and even I'd recommend it as a superb version, but if I want to feel all these emotions, then I need Giulini/philharmonia O. Schwarzkopf/ludwig... (Even admitting that L. Price Is unbeatable).

I watched both Abbado's 'libera me' (LSO with The welch Price -margaret- and Berlin PO with A gheorghiu.) It's always shocked me The way she says The last 'libera me domine de morte aeterna in die illa tremenda'. Many sopranos seem to ask for mercy or to be praying, but Gheorghiu is scared and demands it, showing desperation. Love it.

Toscanini will be my next go (following hpowders advice).

Toscanini is an obvious choice. I got to him later. My 1st and best for a long time was Solti and Vienna on London with Joan, Luciano, Marilyn & Martti. Martti's voice was so solid it was like it went thru the floor. When I finally got around to Abbado with Gheorghiu I was hooked! Her Libera me felt like the heavens were really opening. I have about 10-12 Requiems, I think that's enough for a while.