[Chilham]

For today, the Level 7 works that appear in our Talk Classical Favourite Works.

Level 1
No works

Level 2
No works

Level 3
No works

Level 4
Carissimi, Giacomo: Jephte esp. Final Act
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: Le Bourgeois Gentilhomme

Level 5
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: Armide
Strozzi, Barbara: Arie, Op. 8 esp. No. 6: "Che si può fare"
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: Alceste

Level 6
Lawes, William: The Royall Consort, Sett 2
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: Roland
Froberger, Johann: Suite No. 20 (Partita) in D, FbWV 620 "Meditation sur ma mort future NB Memento mori Froberger"
Froberger, Johann: Suite No. 30 (Partita) in A minor, FbWV 630
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: Te Deum
Froberger, Johann: Suite No. 18 (Partita) in G minor, FbWV 618
Strozzi, Barbara: Cantate, Ariette e Duetti Op. 2 inc. L'Amante Segreto
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: Ballet de la Raillerie
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: Cadus et Hermione
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: Phaëton

Level 7
Lawes, William: Setts for Viols
Froberger, Johann: Lamentation on the Death of Emperor Ferdinand III
Froberger, Johann: Tombeau Fait à Paris sur le Mort de Monsieur Blancrocher
Schmelzer, Johann Heinrich: Sonatae Unarum Fidium
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: Atys
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: Acis et Galatée
d'Anglebert, Jean-Henri: Pièces de Clavecin
Rosenmüller, Johann: Sonate da Camera a 5 Stromenti
Cesti, Antonio: La Dori
Legrenzi, Giovanni: Sonate a Due, e Tre
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: Persée

My listening today:

Lully: Atys (Overtures & Airs)

Barockorchester Capriccio, Dominik Kiefer

Lully: Persée (Highlights)

Christophe Rousset, Les Talens Lyriques, Emiliano Gonzales-Toro, Anders J. Dahlin, Salomé Haller

 

[justekaia]

Totally agree with you that Lully is a minor composer. Just a favourite of Louis XIV. This thread is embracing too much in my opinion and not focusing on the important ones and there are many.

 

[Chilham]

Totally agree with you that Lully is a minor composer. Just a favourite of Louis XIV. This thread is embracing too much in my opinion and not focusing on the important ones and there are many.

We always knew this week was light on highly recommended works.

There are times on this journey when we are inundated with highly recommended works. Similarly, there will be times when the recommendations are there, but few reach high levels. This is one of those weeks.

So what should we do? Sweep them to one side and press on to the next big composer? I say, "No"!. Purcell, Vivaldi, Handel, Bach and others can wait. The composers we'll look at this week were the pre-eminent composers of their generation and we should take a little time to give their works consideration....

Happy to take on any constructive feedback that could improve the thread. Help me define, "Important ones", and share an example or two of where more focus would help.

 

[Mandryka]

Totally agree with you that Lully is a minor composer. Just a favourite of Louis XIV. This thread is embracing too much in my opinion and not focusing on the important ones and there are many.

He's not a minor composer because he was a favourite of Louis XIV and hence his work had influence wherever the Versailles court had influence. Louis XIV's taste was not specially narrow, D'Anglebert worked for him, so did Robert de Visée and Charles Mouton, to take three examples of composers who interest me.

Could we imagine this

without this

 

[Chilham]

Wrapping-up this week a day early with the inevitable, "Dump", of the full list of works for Level 7, intended purely for reference. This list is not 'curated' so may contain errors. Let us know of any gems lurking there. Biber, Buxtehude, Corelli, Purcell and their contemporaries heading our way from tomorrow.

Level 1
No works

Level 2
No works

Level 3
No works

Level 4
Carissimi, Giacomo: Jephte esp. Final Act
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: Le Bourgeois Gentilhomme

Level 5
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: Armide
Strozzi, Barbara: Arie, Op. 8 esp. No. 6: "Che si può fare"
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: Alceste

Level 6
Lawes, William: The Royall Consort, Sett 2
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: Roland
Froberger, Johann: Suite No. 20 (Partita) in D, FbWV 620 "Meditation sur ma mort future NB Memento mori Froberger"
Froberger, Johann: Suite No. 30 (Partita) in A minor, FbWV 630
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: Te Deum
Froberger, Johann: Suite No. 18 (Partita) in G minor, FbWV 618
Strozzi, Barbara: Cantate, Ariette e Duetti Op. 2 inc. L'Amante Segreto
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: Ballet de la Raillerie
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: Cadus et Hermione
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: Phaëton

Level 7
Lawes, William: Setts for Viols
Froberger, Johann: Lamentation on the Death of Emperor Ferdinand III
Froberger, Johann: Tombeau Fait à Paris sur le Mort de Monsieur Blancrocher
Schmelzer, Johann Heinrich: Sonatae Unarum Fidium
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: Atys
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: Acis et Galatée
d'Anglebert, Jean-Henri: Pièces de Clavecin
Rosenmüller, Johann: Sonate da Camera a 5 Stromenti
Cesti, Antonio: La Dori
Legrenzi, Giovanni: Sonate a Due, e Tre
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: Persée
Attey, John: The First Book of Ayres
Cecchini, Angelo: Primavera Urbana col Trionfo d'Amor Pudico
de la Barca, Pedro Calderón: Celos Aun Del Aire Matan
Farina, Carlo: Capriccio Stravagante
Ives, Simon: The Triumph of Peace
Michna, Adam Václav: Ceská Mariánská Muzika
Sances, Giovanni: Cantade
Vittori, Loreto: Galatea
de Chambonnières, Jacques: Pièces de Clavessin
Rossi, Michelangelo: Ermina suf Giordano
Cavalli, Francesco: Musiche sacre concernenti messa, e salmi concertati con istromenti, imni, antifone et sonate
Kircher, Athanasius: Musurgia Universalis
Lawes, William: Fantasia Suites
Lawes, William: The Triumph of Peace
Marazzoli, Marco: Dal Male il Bene
Marazzoli, Marco: La Vita Humana
Ferari, Benedetto: L'Andromeda
Kittel, Caspar: Cantade und Arien
Albert, Heinrich: Arien
Carissimi, Giacomo: Abraham et Isaac
Carissimi, Giacomo: Jonas
Carissimi, Giacomo: Judicum Salomonis
Carissimi, Giacomo: Piangete Ohimè Piangete
Dassoucy, Charles: Andromède
Guerre, Michel de la: Le Triumphe de l'Amour
Sacrati, Francesco: La Finta Pazza
Sacrati, Francesco: Venere Gelosa
Staden, Sigmund: Seelewig
Du Mont, Henry: Cantica Sacra
Du Mont, Henry: Motets à Deux Voix
Duarte, Leonara: Seven Sinfonia
Lambert, Michael: Ballet des Arts
Lambert, Michael: Ballet Royal de la Nuit
Hammerschmidt, Andreas: Gesprãche Zwischen Gott und Einer Gláubigen Seeien
Mace, Thomas: Musick's Monumnet
Anglesi, Domenico: Il Mondo Festeggiante (Horse Ballet)
Caproli, Carlo: Le Nozze di Peleo e di Teti
Ben Jonson: Have You Seen But a Whyte Lille Grow
Gibbons, Christopher: Cupid and Death
Mollier, Louis de: Ballet d'Alcidiene
Cazzati, Maurizio: Cantate Morali e Spirituali
Cazzati, Maurizio: Sonatas Op. 35
Cazzati, Maurizio: Trattenimento per Camera d'Arie, Correnti, e Balletti
Froberger, Johann: Lamentation on the Death of King Ferdinand IV
Rosenmüller, Johann: Paduanen, Alemanden, Couranten, Balletten, Sarabanden
Strozzi, Barbara: Sacri Musicali Affetti (Motets)
Strozzi, Barbara: Primo Libro de'Madrigali
Zéspedes, Juan García de: Guaracha "Ay Que Me Abraso"
Leonarda, Isabella: Sonata Duodecima
Leonarda, Isabella: 12 Sonatas Op. 16 esp. 3. Sonata Terza 5. Soli Violini
Poglietti, Alessandro: Rossignolo
Locke, Matthew: Be Thou Exulted Lord
Locke, Matthew: Cupid and Death
Locke, Matthew: Music for His Majesty's Sagbutts and Cornetts
Locke, Matthew: Psyche
Locke, Matthew: The Tempest
Cesti, Antonio: Il Pomo d'Oro
Cesti, Antonio: Cleopatra
Cesti, Antonio: Le Disgrazie d'Amore
Cesti, Antonio: Nettuno e Flora
Cesti, Antonio: Orontea
Melani, Jacopo: Ercole in Tebe
Melani, Jacopo: Il Girello
Weelkes, Thomas: As Vesta was from Latmos Hill descending
Weelkes, Thomas: Ayeres or Phantastique Spirites for Three Voices
Weelkes, Thomas: Give Ear, O Lord
Weelkes, Thomas: Madrigals of 5 & 6 Parts
Weelkes, Thomas: O Care, Thou Wilt Despatch Me
Bontempi, Giovanni: Daphne
Peranda, Marco: Daphne
Couperin, Louis: Pièces d'Orgue
Legrenzi, Giovanni: Acclamationi Divote (Book I)
Legrenzi, Giovanni: Concerti Musicali per uso de Chiesa
Legrenzi, Giovanni: Harmonia d'Affetti Devoti
Legrenzi, Giovanni: Il Giustino
Legrenzi, Giovanni: L'Achile in Sciro
Legrenzi, Giovanni: Nino il Giusto
Legrenzi, Giovanni: Sonate da Chiesa e da Camera
Keril, Johann Kaspar: L'Oronte
Keril, Johann Kaspar: Missae Sex
Cambert, Robert: La Muette Ingrate
Cambert, Robert: La Pastorale d'Issy
Cambert, Robert: Pomone
Pellavicino, Carlo: L'Amazone Corsara
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: Amadis
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: Ballet d'Alcidiane
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: Ballet de Flore
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: Ballet de la Naissance de Vénus
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: Ballet de la Nuit
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: Ballet des Amours Déguisés
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: Ballet des Arts
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: Ballet des Muses
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: De Profundis
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: George Dandin
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: Hercule Amoureux
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: Isis
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: L'Amour Médecin
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: La Galanterie du Temps
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: Le Marriage Forcé
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: Le Triomphe d'Amour
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: Miserere
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: Pomone
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: Proserpine
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: Psyché, a Tragédie-Ballet
Lully, Jean-Baptiste: Thésée
Nivers, Guillaume: Livre d'Orgue
Nivers, Guillaume: Troisième Livre d'Orgue

I'm heading back up the list for my listening today:

Lully: Alceste

Christophe Rousset, Les Talens Lyriques

 

[Mandryka]

Peter Pears recorded the Fellows arrangement of Jonson’s Have You Seen But a Whyte Lille Grow with Julian Bream - it’s a high point.

Louis Couperin’s organ music is not, I think, the best way in to his music.

There’s just one recording which has made me see the point of Nivers’ music - with Kei Koito and Dominique Vellard.

 

[Chilham]

Peter Pears recorded the Fellows arrangement of Jonson's Have You Seen But a Whyte Lille Grow with Julian Bream - it's a high point...

Seems like I've categorised the Jonson/Johnson work by date of composition, not date of composer's birth.

 

[Chilham]

So, we're six weeks in and the thread generates about 500-views per day. I assume the majority of those will be 'bots' but even so, despite relatively low participation in the thread, there must be some interest in the journey. Thank you to Mandryka and others who have shared their extensive knowledge. It's really valuable.

If you are following the thread, you'll be anticipating the 'score' of major composers heading our way at the end of the seventeenth century, but as we prepare for that onslaught, let's first steady ourselves with a week of the most excellent composers born 1634-66. First-up, the most highly recommended work for this week:

Level 1
No works

Level 2
Purcell, Henry: Dido and Aeneas

My listening this morning:

Purcell: Dido and Aeneas

Emmanuelle Haïm, Le Concert d'Astrée

Other options here.

 

[justekaia]

So, we're six weeks in and the thread generates about 500-views per day. I assume the majority of those will be 'bots' but even so, despite relatively low participation in the thread, there must be some interest in the journey. Thank you to Mandryka and others who have shared their extensive knowledge. It's really valuable.

If you are following the thread, you'll be anticipating the 'score' of major composers heading our way at the end of the seventeenth century, but as we prepare for that onslaught, let's first steady ourselves with a week of the most excellent composers born 1634-66. First-up, the most highly recommended work for this week:

Level 1
No works

Level 2
Purcell, Henry: Dido and Aeneas

My listening this morning:

Purcell: Dido and Aeneas

Emmanuelle Haïm, Le Concert d'Astrée

Other options here.

Let me just state yours is a great thread and as a longtime listener to all these composers I managed to rekindle my interest for all the major composers you feature. There are some new exciting recordings (De la Rue F.E.) of some of these and it shows that passion for this music will never die.So like you say there is certainly deep interest in your journey but probably most of us, including myself, do not have the level to intervene on a technical level.Being of Flemish origin i have always been particularly drawn to old music. It is part of our DNA. So don't give up like PG sings, but continue to stimulate our senses.

 

[premont]

Louis Couperin's organ music is not, I think, the best way in to his music.

Recall that it has been questioned if the Louis Couperin organ music and harpsichord music has been composed by the same person. They are indeed very different from each other.

There's just one recording which has made me see the point of Nivers' music - with Kei Koito and Dominique Vellard.

Thanks, I shall try to investigate this if possible.

Edit: This one?
https://www.prestomusic.com/classic...s-orgue-j-boizard-a-saint-michel-en-thierache

 

[Mandryka]

Recall that it has been questioned if the Louis Couperin organ music and harpsichord music has been composed by the same person. They are indeed very different from each other.

Thanks, I shall try to investigate this if possible.

Edit: This one?
https://www.prestomusic.com/classic...s-orgue-j-boizard-a-saint-michel-en-thierache

Yes that's the Nivers.

I once read something by Davitt Moroney where he said that there's more evidence that the organ music is by Louis Couperin than there is that the harpsichord music is by Louis Couperin. I will keep out of the debate!

 

[premont]

Yes that's the Nivers.

I once read something by Davitt Moroney where he said that there's more evidence that the organ music is by Louis Couperin than there is that the harpsichord music is by Louis Couperin. I will keep out of the debate!

Yes, and this is surprising, since one should think, that the harpsichord music was composed by someone close to Froberger (Louis Couperin), while the organ music has very little in common with Froberger's organ music.

 

[new but obsessed]

I'm enjoying the Haim recording of Dido and Aeneas (and inspiring me to re-read Virgil!). I often find it hard to listen to an opera without seeing it first as I struggle to understand the music without the narrative and the acting, but this has plenty of good music that's easy enough to get into. Hopefully I can see a performance one day!

I'm struck by how much the music reminds me of Church music, or at least my vague stereotype of it. Is it the case that Purcell or Baroque music in general skews towards the tradition of church music? Or on the other hand, is the church music that we've carried through today disproportionately from the Baroque era, and in its day that church music was fashioned after contemporary popular music?

Or am I just mischaracterizing all of this? A distinct possibility.

Thanks!

 

[Chilham]

Level 1
No works

Level 2
Purcell, Henry: Dido and Aeneas
Corelli, Arcangelo: Concerto Grosso in G Minor Op. 6 esp. No. 4, No. 8, 'Fatto per la notte di Natale'

Level 3
Pachelbel, Johann: Canon and Gigue in D

Level 4
Biber, Heinrich Ignaz von: The Rosary Sonatas "Passacaglia"
Biber, Heinrich Ignaz von: The Rosary Sonatas "The Glorious Mysteries"
Biber, Heinrich Ignaz von: The Rosary Sonatas "The Joyful Mysteries"
Biber, Heinrich Ignaz von: The Rosary Sonatas "The Sorrowful Mysteries" esp. Sonata No. 10

I listened to Corelli's excellent Concerto Grossi only last month so my listening today:

Biber: Rosary (Mystery) Sonatas

Rachel Podger, Marcin Swiatkiewicz & David Miller

 

[marlow]

Emmanuel Haim with Nat Dessay in Handel: Il Trionfo del tempo e del disingann

 

[Mandryka]

Level 1
No works

Level 2
Purcell, Henry: Dido and Aeneas
Corelli, Arcangelo: Concerto Grosso in G Minor Op. 6 esp. No. 4, No. 8, 'Fatto per la notte di Natale'

Level 3
Pachelbel, Johann: Canon and Gigue in D

Level 4
Biber, Heinrich Ignaz von: The Rosary Sonatas "Passacaglia"
Biber, Heinrich Ignaz von: The Rosary Sonatas "The Glorious Mysteries"
Biber, Heinrich Ignaz von: The Rosary Sonatas "The Joyful Mysteries"
Biber, Heinrich Ignaz von: The Rosary Sonatas "The Sorrowful Mysteries" esp. Sonata No. 10

I listened to Corelli's excellent Concerto Grossi only last month so my listening today:

Biber: Rosary (Mystery) Sonatas

Rachel Podger, Marcin Swiatkiewicz & David Miller

Normally I don't like spoken word in music but I really enjoyed the recording with Pavlo Beznoziuk, which has readings in English from a rosary prayer book contemporary with the music. The sonatas are functional music - an aid to prayer.

 

[Chilham]

Level 1
No works

Level 2
Purcell, Henry: Dido and Aeneas
Corelli, Arcangelo: Concerto Grosso in G Minor Op. 6 esp. No. 4, No. 8, 'Fatto per la notte di Natale'

Level 3
Pachelbel, Johann: Canon and Gigue in D

Level 4
Biber, Heinrich Ignaz von: The Rosary Sonatas "Passacaglia"
Biber, Heinrich Ignaz von: The Rosary Sonatas "The Glorious Mysteries"
Biber, Heinrich Ignaz von: The Rosary Sonatas "The Joyful Mysteries"
Biber, Heinrich Ignaz von: The Rosary Sonatas "The Sorrowful Mysteries" esp. Sonata No. 10
Corelli, Arcangelo: Violin Sonatas Op. 5 esp. No. 5, No. 9
Purcell, Henry: King Arthur

Level 5
Buxtehude, Dietrich: Membra Jesu Nostri BuxWV 75

I listened to this yesterday evening:

Buxtehude: Membra Jesu Nostri

Harry Christophers, The Sixteen

I've just embarked on this. Perhaps a journey in itself:

Corelli: Violin Sonatas Op. 5

Andrew Manze, Richard Egarr

 

[Chilham]

Level 1
No works

Level 2
Purcell, Henry: Dido and Aeneas
Corelli, Arcangelo: Concerto Grosso in G Minor Op. 6 esp. No. 4, No. 8, 'Fatto per la notte di Natale'

Level 3
Pachelbel, Johann: Canon and Gigue in D

Level 4
Biber, Heinrich Ignaz von: The Rosary Sonatas "Passacaglia"
Biber, Heinrich Ignaz von: The Rosary Sonatas "The Glorious Mysteries"
Biber, Heinrich Ignaz von: The Rosary Sonatas "The Joyful Mysteries"
Biber, Heinrich Ignaz von: The Rosary Sonatas "The Sorrowful Mysteries" esp. Sonata No. 10
Corelli, Arcangelo: Violin Sonatas Op. 5 esp. No. 5, No. 9
Purcell, Henry: King Arthur

Level 5
Buxtehude, Dietrich: Membra Jesu Nostri BuxWV 75
Purcell, Henry: Hail! Bright Cecilia! Ode for St. Cecilia's Day
Purcell, Henry: Fairy Queen
Buxtehude, Dieterich: Preludes for Organ, BuxWV 136-154 esp. BuxWV 149
Purcell, Henry: My Heart is Inditing
Purcell, Henry: Fantasias for Viols
Charpentier, Marc-Antoine: Te Deum
Purcell, Henry: Ode to Queen Mary's Birthday "Come Ye Sons of Art Away"
Purcell, Henry: Music for the Funeral of Queen Mary

I have a lot of time on my hands today so my listening:

Purcell: The Fairy Queen

Paul McCreesh, Carolyn Sampson, Anna Dennis, Mhairi Lawson, Ashley Riches, Roderick Williams, Gabrieli Consort

Purcell: Fantasias for Viols

Jordi Savall, Hesperion XX

Purcell: Hail! Bright Cecilia! Ode for St. Cecilia's Day

Philippe Herreweghe, Collegium Vocale Gent

Purcell: Ode to Queen Mary's Birthday "Come Ye Sons of Art Away" & Music for the Funeral of Queen Mary

Sir Stephen Cleobury, Academy of Ancient Music, Choir of King's College, Cambridge

Charpentier: Te Deum

William Christie, Les Arts Florissants

 

[Mandryka]

Well that prompted me to listen to some Buxtehude played by Harald Vogel, and Harnoncourt playing the Purcell. The Harnoncourt is really sensual and melting - quite different from Savall’s rather severe conception.

 

[Mandryka]

Also interesting to think about what's happening in yesterday's Corelli op 5 on the one hand, and the Buxtehude organ music and Purcell viol music on the other.

The Purcell and Buxtehude are deep, in the sense of containing many simultaneous independent and significant musical strands. There is an inner life to this music, it's not just a surface of melody.

The Corelli is basically tunes and violin swagger with a bit of keyboard tinkle in the background.

I think Corelli was at the beginning of the most significant deterioration in the history of classical music. Classical music doesn't really thoroughly recover until the middle of the 20th century.