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As for Clara and Fanny, I would say that their ideas were less impressive, but their pieces are of course very well-crafted (they had plenty of exposure). So, what I would suspect is that people would have a more difficult time with them and are more apt to get tired of the process of listening to them.
Anyway the more you listen, weeks apart, and and in very different moods, the more you will hear in them …and then you could be impressed by how much less quality time they probably had for composing (less than Robert or Felix).

On another note, relevant to this thread, we were exploring in my classes yesterday how and why people seem to immediately appreciate works like Moonlight Sonata and Liebestraum and Pachelbel Canon in D, Air on a G String, Ravel’s Death of a Princess, Mozart’s k545. We came to a preliminary conclusion that humans already know these famous chord progressions AND the notes in these pieces grow right out of the chord progressions ..that they already know. Of course I'm speaking of preteens with little experience in listening, but it might be helpful to know as the new CM fan.

It's fairly obvious, but so much about music appreciation is quite obvious (it actually has to be for non-musicians, and composers needed to know that all too well).:)
Indeed. Very interesting and useful. Not just with Classical but with all music, I have a hard time understanding why I like some things and not others (usually it has little to do with meeting conventions -- most often with contemporary music I have prefered the non-mainstream/non-pop, so I find it interesting that I resonate more highly with "traditional" CM, maybe?). I usually chalk it up to "the little person in me who is either dancing to the tune or not". ha. It's all the more frustrating because I studied cinema very closely in college, so in seeing how well I can understand one art form, it makes my blindspots in other art forms, music included, that much more stark.

And that makes sense with Clara and Fanny. I had heard that Fanny was often dissuaded from publishing openly. Though I'd heard an anecdote that some of her works did find important non-musician fans, like the Queen of England. And I'd read that Clara was mostly busy as a performer rather than a composer, and was the main source of income for her family. Amazing, really! I love this sort of history!
 

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Discussion Starter · #663 · (Edited)
... I'm curious, are we going to be covering the works of Clara S. and Fanny M.? I've been listening to my fair share of classical music/history podcasts and they've had remarkable stories. I wonder if their musical legacy has garnered Chillam-Metacritic/Chill-Tomatoes levels of noteworthiness.
Fanny M was the same week as Felix. There were just two of her works on the list, in Level 6; the String Quartet in E-flat Major that Kreisler jr mentioned and the Piano Trio Op. 11. Clara S coming tomorrow.

Sneak preview:

Level 5
Schumann, Clara: Piano Concerto
Schumann, Clara: 3 Romances Op. 22 esp. No. 1, Andante molto
Schumann, Clara: Piano Trio Op 17

Level 6
Schumann, Clara: Piano Sonata in G Minor
Schumann, Clara: Three Preludes and Fugues Op. 16
 

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Discussion Starter · #665 · (Edited)
Composers born 1811-1819 this week, including the non-operatic works of Verdi and Wagner. Quite an interesting bag.

Level 1
Verdi, Giuseppe: Requiem Mass esp. III Offertorio: Domine Jesu, Dies Irae



Level 2
Liszt, Franz: Piano Sonata in B minor, S. 178 esp. IV. Andante sostenuto


Liszt, Franz: Hungarian Rhapsodies esp. Rhapsody No. 2

Level 3
Wagner, Richard: Siegfried - Idyll

Level 4
Liszt, Franz: Piano Concerto No. 1
Liszt, Franz: Faust Symphony

Level 5
Liszt, Franz: Der Tanz in der Dorfschenke "Mephisto Waltz No. 1"
Liszt, Franz: Transcendental Studies After Paganini


Liszt, Franz: Les Préludes
Liszt, Franz: Totentanz
Liszt, Franz: Piano Concerto No. 2
Schumann, Clara: Piano Concerto
Gounod, Charles: Ave Maria
Schumann, Clara: 3 Romances Op. 22 esp. No. 1, Andante molto
Schumann, Clara: Piano Trio Op 17
Alkan, Charles-Valentin: Symphonie for Solo Piano Op. 39

Level 6
Liszt, Franz: Années de Pèlerinage Deuxième année "Italie"
Liszt, Franz: Années de Pèlerinage Première année "Suisse"
Liszt, Franz: Années de pèlerinage Troisième année
Liszt, Franz: Nuages Gris (Trübe Wolken)
Wagner, Richard: Wesendonck-Lieder


Liszt, Franz: Dante Symphony
Gounod, Charles: Mors et Vita
Alkan, Charles-Valentin: Études
Liszt, Franz: Liebestraum No. 3
Alkan, Charles-Valentin: Grande Sonate
Verdi, Giuseppe: String Quartet in E Minor


Thomas, Amboise: Hamlet
Liszt, Franz: Bagatelle Without Tonality
Thomas, Amboise: Mignon
Franz, Robert: Gesãnge (12) Op. 1 esp. No. 3 Die Lotosblume, No. 5 "O säh' ich auf der Haide dort", No. 10 Schlummerlied
Gounod, Charles: La Rédemption
Offenbach, Jacques: Gaīté Parisienne
Schumann, Clara: Piano Sonata in G Minor
Schumann, Clara: Three Preludes and Fugues Op. 16

Level 7
Liszt, Franz: Liebstraum No. 2
Liszt, Franz: La Lugubre Gondola
Liszt, Franz: 6 Consolations, S. 172 esp. No. 3 in D-Flat Major
Gounod, Charles: Messe Solenelle de Saint Cécile
Litolff, Henry: Concerto Symphonique No. 4 "Scherzo"
Liszt, Franz: Rhapsodie Espagnole
Gounod, Charles: Marche Funèbre d'un Marionette
Gounod, Charles: Peteite Symphonie


Honourable mentions:
Mayer, Emilie: Piano Concerto, Piano Sonata, String Quartet & Symphony No. 4
Dargomïzhsky, Alexander: Rusalka & The Stone Guest
Fry, William: Leonara
Moniuszko, Stanislaw: Halka
Suppé, Franz von: Requiem esp. 5. Recordare
 

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Great shame that Liszt’s songs aren’t there!
Any particular recommendations? I have some of them somewhere but don't remember ever listening to them...

Wth Siegfried Idyll? Because it is the only non-operatic Wagner, or what? As problematic as "bleeding chunks" of operas might be, I think they give a better impression of Wagner's main works than the idyll.
 

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Discussion Starter · #669 ·
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Wth Siegfried Idyll? Because it is the only non-operatic Wagner, or what? As problematic as "bleeding chunks" of operas might be, I think they give a better impression of Wagner's main works than the idyll.
Not sure I understand the question. Just to clarify, Siegfried - Idyll got eleven nominations, separate from the opera which got twenty-one and we'll cover next week, so I put it here, with Wesendonck-Lieder.
 

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Discussion Starter · #671 ·
The question is "why bother"? This project is severely "crowded" as it is, so skip Siegfried Idyll and the Verdi Quartet
Good question but I guess I want to make as few "editorial" decisions myself as possible. I set the criteria and after that, if it's in, it's in, and if it's out, it's out. Not for me to exclude individual works.
 

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Any particular recommendations? I have some of them somewhere but don't remember ever listening to them...

Wth Siegfried Idyll? Because it is the only non-operatic Wagner, or what? As problematic as "bleeding chunks" of operas might be, I think they give a better impression of Wagner's main works than the idyll.
I first discovered the songs through a strange route. Pavi, on his live Carnegie hall recital disc. I just noticed this on youtube which sounds excellent to me

Liszt - Sonetto del Petrarca nº 104: Pace non trovo (Luciano Pavarotti) - YouTube

A good standby in Liszt is Nicolai Gedda, here he is with O quand je dors

Oh! quand je dors, S282/2/R569b - YouTube

Here's Quasthoff singing Loreley

Liszt: Die Loreley, S.273 - 1. Fassung - YouTube

A more recent anthology which I enjoyed a lot is Matthew Polenzani with Julius Drake
 

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The question is "why bother"? This project is severely "crowded" as it is, so skip Siegfried Idyll and the Verdi Quartet
There's a very good recording of the Siegfried Idyll by Bruno Maderna which I can let people have if they PM me. Apart from that, it was transcribed very well IMO by Glen Gould

Wagner - Siegfried Idyll - Glenn Gould transcription - YouTube

I think the quartet group here did the Verdi -- not my cup of tea so I won't comment.
 

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Any particular recommendations? I have some of them somewhere but don't remember ever listening to them...
Wth Siegfried Idyll? Because it is the only non-operatic Wagner, or what? As problematic as "bleeding chunks" of operas might be, I think they give a better impression of Wagner's main works than the idyll.
Die Lorelei, composed in 1856, just as Wagner was embarking on Tristan und Isolde
 

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It's me, not Chopin, that's for sure. I don't warm so easily to solo piano works as I do orchestral, chamber or opera, but whilst I enjoyed or at least appreciated all of the Schumann works listed (I listened down to Chopin's Berceuse), I simply didn't enjoy Chopin's Impromtus, Polonaises, Études, Scherzo No. 2, Fantasie in F Minor, Barcarolle or Piano Concerto No. 1.

Maybe they'll grow on me.
hello chilham, as you know i am i awe of your fabulous thread and will participate in the later stages where i can contribute more. that being said Chopin is an absolute genius and his music has immense inner strength, what i believe most listeners do not grasp at first hearing. He is one of the 50 composers i always go back to. his preludes and nocturnes in the right hands are simply unbelievable. Freire and Argerich as well as Fliter and Anna Gourari are some of the right contemporary interpreters. Arthur Rubinstein was superlative in his days.So, when you have time please listen to these versions of those two masterpieces. there are plenty of other great pieces on top of that.take care
 

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Any particular recommendations? I have some of them somewhere but don't remember ever listening to them...

Wth Siegfried Idyll? Because it is the only non-operatic Wagner, or what? As problematic as "bleeding chunks" of operas might be, I think they give a better impression of Wagner's main works than the idyll.
The Siegfried Idyll is an absolute masterpiece and the template for so many symphonic poems to come. I am sure Richard Strauss must have heard it. The Operas, i agree are on another level because there is so much more involved (libretto; voices, themes and orchestral strength).
 

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As I said above we had the Fanny Mendelssohn-Hensel quartet in the weekly quartet series. It's a rather interesting and original piece and worth a try if one likes the genre and classicist/early romantic pieces.
I have a theory, unsupported by any real facts. I think that many of Robert Schumann's works may have actually been written by Clara.
 

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I have a theory, unsupported by any real facts. I think that many of Robert Schumann's works may have actually written by Clara.
Your theory does not make any sense. RS wrote his masterpieces like Kreisleriana and Fantasia as homages to a very young Clara. He was no doubt vastly superior to Clara as a composer. Clara would have written loads of masterpieces after his death if she had been a great composer, which she was not. She was a great pianist.
 
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